Question on Apostle's Creed

[The Squalid Wanderer]

How often is the Apostle's Creed used in comparison to the Latin Creed, and is it used for different functions, i.e., the Latin Creed would be used for baptisms and not the Apostle's, or the Latin Creed would be used in this kind of situation and not the Apostle's.

So I guess I'm asking for the comparative freqency of the Apostle's Creed usage and any rules for it's use.

 

[isshinwhat]

The Nicene Creed is usually said at Mass, although there is a stipulation that the Apostles' Creed may be said, as well. At Baptisms, the Apostles Creed is said almost exclusively as far as I know. nyj or Wols, come quickly to our aid!

God Bless,

Neal

 

[The Squalid Wanderer]

Dear isshinwhat,

I'm sorry, but in light of our recent discussion I must ask. By Nicene Creed, do you mean the original Nicene Creed, the Nicene-Constantinoplitan Creed, or the Latin Creed?

 

[isshinwhat]

Since I am a member of the Latin Rite, the Nicene-Constantinoplitan Creed is used in most of our liturgies with the filioque included. The Eastern Rites use the Creed sans filioque.

http://clawww.lmu.edu/~fjust/Mass.htm 

Neal

 

[The Squalid Wanderer]

Dear isshinwhat,

I'll leave it at that then, but I still don't think we've worked out an agreement as to whether what you consider to N-C+fil is the N-C or a different creed altogether.

 

[jukesk9]

Man, my daughter was just baptized this past April and I don't remember if we said the Apostle's Creed or not! I'll do an online search for a baptismal program.....

As far as worship goes, I don't ever remember saying the Apostle's Creed except during the Rosary, which is usually said a half hour before Saturday Mass.

 

[The Squalid Wanderer]

Dear Jukesk9,

Would you say then that in your experience the Apostle's Creed gets limited useage compared to the Nicene-Constantinoplitan with filoque Creed?

If so, I find that mildly suprising since in my experience with Protestant worship (Reformed and Lutheran) I have found the Apostle's Creed to be used much more frequently than the N-C+f. My spouse was raised Presbyterian and knew the Apostle's Creed by heart, but was nearly clueless as to the N-C+f Creed.

 

[isshinwhat]

I'll leave it at that then, but I still don't think we've worked out an agreement as to whether what you consider to N-C+fil is the N-C or a different creed altogether.

For the record I consider it to be one Creed. What the Creed minus filioque makes implicit, I believe the Creed with filioque makes explicit.

God Bless,

Neal

 

[Phoebe]

If this helps, in the Lutheran church, the Nicene Creed is used on all festivals and on Sundays in the seasons of Advent, Christmas, Lent, and Easter. The Creed is omitted (here) if the service of Holy Baptism or another rite with a creed is used.

 

[jukesk9]

Originally posted by The Squalid Wanderer
Dear Jukesk9,

Would you say then that in your experience the Apostle's Creed gets limited useage compared to the Nicene-Constantinoplitan with filoque Creed?

If so, I find that mildly suprising since in my experience with Protestant worship (Reformed and Lutheran) I have found the Apostle's Creed to be used much more frequently than the N-C+f. My spouse was raised Presbyterian and knew the Apostle's Creed by heart, but was nearly clueless as to the N-C+f Creed.

Yes.  And I think that the reasoning is the Nicene Creed that we Catholics profess is a fuller expression of our faith while the Apostle's Creed is a summation of our faith. 

 

[Wolseley]

When you can recite from memory the entire Athanasian Creed, let me know.

Then you'll have accomplished something.

 

[Wolseley]

THE ATHANASIAN CREED:

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith.

Which Faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

And the Catholic Faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity.

Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance.

For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost.

But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son and of the Holy Ghost is all One, the Glory Equal, the Majesty Co-Eternal.

Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost.

The Father Uncreate, the Son Uncreate, and the Holy Ghost Uncreate.

The Father Incomprehensible, the Son Incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost Incomprehensible.

The Father Eternal, the Son Eternal, and the Holy Ghost Etneral and yet they are not Three Eternals but One Eternal.

As also there are not Three Uncreated, nor Three Incomprehensibles, but One Uncreated, and One Uncomprehensible.

So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Ghost Almighty.

And yet they are not Three Almighties but One Almighty.

So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God.

And yet they are not Three Gods, but One God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord.

And yet not Three Lords but One Lord. For, like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be God and Lord, so are we forbidden by the Catholic Religion to say, there be Three Gods or Three Lords.

The Father is made of none, neither created, nor begotten.

The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created, but begotten.

The Holy Ghost is of the Father, and of the Son neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

So there is One Father, not Three Fathers; one Son, not Three Sons; One Holy Ghost, not Three Holy Ghosts.

And in this Trinity none is afore or after Other, None is greater or less than Another, but the whole Three Persons are Co-eternal together, and Co-equal.

So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity is Trinity, and the Trinity is Unity is to be worshipped.

He therefore that will be saved, must thus think of the Trinity.

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting Salvation, that he also believe rightly the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess, that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man.

God, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the substance of His mother, born into the world.

Perfect God and Perfect Man, of a reasonable Soul and human Flesh subsisting.

Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His Manhood.

Who, although He be God and Man, yet He is not two, but One Christ.

One, not by conversion of the Godhead into Flesh, but by taking of the Manhood into God.

One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by Unity of Person.

For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one Man, so God and Man is one Christ.

Who suffered for our salvation, descended into Hell, rose again the third day from the dead.

He ascended into Heaven, He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty, from whence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies, and shall give account for their own works.

And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting, and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.

This is the Catholic Faith, which except a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.

 

[The Squalid Wanderer]

Dear isshinwhat,

For the record I consider it to be one Creed. What the Creed minus filioque makes implicit, I believe the Creed with filioque makes explicit.

I should have made it clear that what I meant was that we had not come to an agreement between ourselves as to whether the filoque constitutes another creed or a variation of the same creed. I know that your position is the variation one and mine to be the two creed position, and while that which separates the two positions might just be a matter of terminology and definition, we have not yet resolved it between ourselves. More dialogue on that particular point would be needed.