Question for Christians

[PoePom]

My question is why do you believe the bible? What does it offer that you canot find elsewhere in life. And please no one give me an answer along the lines of "to be closer to god" or "to be saved", because these answers require that you already believe in god.

Tom

 

[salida]

Poe --

I have been repeating myself here on this subject today ha.

I can give you information based on intellect alone even though being a christian is a spiritual decison. If one were to chose a religion based on intellect only it would be the Bible. There is overwhelming evidence that support its validity. I can share with you a few things about it - but I strongly suggest that you get Examine the Evidence by Muncaster(athiest to a christian) and Lee Strobel(athiest to a christian) has some great books like "A Case for Faith".

I think I will use science since this is my background. I could use prophesy, history, archaeological evidence, etc. Its only a few things here because again its too much information.

Again if your serious - you will do your own research. Otherwise, you arn't.

For the Bible to be considered the inspired Word of God, it must be scientifically accurate since God would know the facts about his creation. In many cases science has discovered facts that the Bible had contained far in advance of the discoveries.

The Earth hangs in empty space (the Bible 3000 B.C.); Job 26:7 and science discovered this until Copernicus in 1543.

Air has weight (the Bible 3000 B.C.) Job 28:25; An Italian discovered barometric pressure in 1643.

Time, space and matter had a beginning (Bible 1450) science in 1916. The Bibles first words were in the beginning - and 2 Timothy 1:9, Titus 1:2, I Corinthians 2:7. In 1915 Albert Einstein's equations of general relativity proposed a beginning of time, matter and space. Later these equations were confirmed by repeated experiments.

I can go on with the earth being a sphere, thermodynamics, the universe is expanding, the stars are uncountable, etc. etc.

There are an abundance amount of this information with the subject of science alone and the Bible - I just gave you a very very small speck of it.

 

[Letalis]

Closed for staff review.

​

 

[ZACTAK]

THREAD REOPENED!

before you post, please keep in mind the rules of this site. We don't want to shut this thread for good, so please follow the rules!

http://www.christianforums.com/rules
​

 

[RiseAgain]

Where elsewhere would you have me look....I have checked all the others....and everyone of them lead me right back to Jesus Christ... Everything in the Bible is true, read it, you spend 30 years reading it, then come back here, and asks us why we believe in GOD...If you never read the Bible, then you do not want your question answered.

 

[RiseAgain]

But again you may be young, so forgive me...Please read the bible, and see if you can find what you are looking for....

 

[Athaliamum]

What does it offer that you canot find elsewhere in life.

A code of moral conduct. A state of being rather then doing.

While the bible is and can be viewed as a whole, it is also it's separate parts, parts that when understood fit together in such an intricut puzzle that it could not be by chance.

The bible has a timeline starting with Torah. The principal foundation of the Judiaic faith. For the Jew the Torah is more then religion or culture - it is their history and many count it as such.

What many would call old testament we call Tenakh. The Tenakh is actually in a different order then the standard christian bible in an order of events and groupings. The word Tenakh comes from the first letters of each of these groupings - Torah (Law, teachings), Nevi'im (Prophets) and K'tuvim (writings, history's). We also have a different number of books. There is 24 books within the Tenakh and 39 within the christian bible. This is because we don't seperate the books into 1 and 2 kings, it is simply kings, 1 & 2 Samuel are simply Samuel and the is one book for minor prophets instead of them each having their own book (Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahu, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi), Ezra-Nehemiah and 1-2 Chronicles. We also do not set our pages into columns. A lot of the bible is actually poetry, but the rythem of the lines often get muddled because their changed to fit so that the page can have columns. The poetry also has a very distinct pattern that again gets lost. Why are these important though? Understanding Torah, understanding the structure of Tenakh shows with more certainty the truths of the B'rit Hadashah or New Testament. Things stated that might sound weird from the standard western understanding change when understood in the context they were given. The bible has it's truths and historical, logical and cultural reasons to be believed in it's authenticness. The issue doesn't come down to can it pass the test but is the test been done properly without bias. If someone went to do a true test of the validity of Eistein's works on the Theory of Relativity they wouldn't dismiss anything first without truely understanding the concepts, the situation or parametres but with the bible most critics will see something that doesn't fit with them and then either dismiss it or gun to disprove it without first finding the context or understanding the situation of concepts. To me that's poor investigation.

 

[Rafael]

My question is why do you believe the bible? What does it offer that you canot find elsewhere in life. And please no one give me an answer along the lines of "to be closer to god" or "to be saved", because these answers require that you already believe in god.

Tom

It makes logical sense to believe in a Creator when surrounded by intelligent design and standing in the middle of creation as a conscious being. We see and experience all that He has constructed. If we were so smart as to be able to tell how we and life began, we would be able to do the same as God - but we cannot.
The Bible tells us that all people know that there is "God" innately, but we exchange that truth for lies as we grow older because we are born with a dead spirit and a nature of sin and death. That is why men die when it was not originally so according to the scriptures.
I was once agnostic, not really being able to say there could be no God but unwilling to say there was, but through time, God has shown me how narrowly I was thinking - how absolutely lost I was from any truth about life. We are of great importance to God and have responsibility for the gift of life we are given - to know love which is God through His Son Jesus Christ. Jesus paid the price for mankinds fall into sin and death and has given us all a chance to have back immortal life as His family - brothers and sisters to Christ.
I see in the news everyday the sin and selfishness of man to do evil, and I also see that the prophets of the Bible were right about Israel and the end of the world - where all nations would finally come to fight over Jerusalem. It is all actually written out in great detail in the Bible for those who will go and research.
The beginning and end is written for us to view in the Bible. Yeah, it gets a lot of flack because people don't want to believe, but if God is really who He says, then He would be able to keep His word through the short time mankind has been on earth and keep record of it.
Lee Strobel's book, "A Case For A Creator", asks and answers most of the questions and accusations of atheism, and if you would really like to seek truth, even scientifically, check out his book. He was once an atheist who set out to disprove the life of Jesus but ended up a believer with his first book, "A Case For CHrist" - also a good read.
I wish you truth and wellness during the journey of life...

Romans 1:18 But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who push the truth away from themselves.
19 ¶ For the truth about God is known to them instinctively. God has put this knowledge in their hearts.
20 From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God.
21 Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. The result was that their minds became dark and confused.
22 Claiming to be wise, they became utter fools instead.

 

[ephraimanesti]

My question is why do you believe the bible? What does it offer that you canot find elsewhere in life. And please no one give me an answer along the lines of "to be closer to god" or "to be saved", because these answers require that you already believe in god.

Tom

MY DEAR FRIEND,

The Bible offers me:
1. A KNOWLEDGE OF WHO I AM
2. A KNOWLEDGE OF WHERE I COME FROM
3. AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE MEANING AND PURPOSE OF MY LIFE
4. A KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT FOLLOWS THIS LIFE

This understanding and knowledge if available no where else--believe me, i have spent most of my life looking! The Bible is the key to everything! Without it as our guide, we humans are little more than dumb animals--eating, sleeping, procreating, and dying without meaning, purpose, or understanding.

Sorry if this answer violates you "please don't tell me . . ." guidelines. i can only share my experience. May you allow yourself a similar experience!

IN CHRIST,
ephraim

 

[Dondi]

God changed my life.

 

[dvd_holc]

The history of creation and the redemption of creation. The story of the Creator purposely creating the world with its power structure, subjecting creation to the power structure even we get it wrong, and moving toward redemption through acts of mercy and judgment. In the Garden, God would come and dwell with men. But because of the offense, God seperated Himself so that His holiness would not bring down wrath on man right then. Men continued to rebel from God and wrath came to men in the washing away of the wicked. Likewise, in the exodus and in the temple dwelt in the midst of the people on a more permenant bases. Again the people rebelled from the way of God, leaving only judgment to come upon the temple and nation. Still, God promised hope and staked His life on it if we failed to live within that hope. On Cavalier, Jesus paid that price so that the seperation of God and world would not exist. On Pentecoast, the glory of the Lord rested on the faithful followers of Christ because Jesus came and preach how to have harmony with God. We continue to work through the Power of the Spirit that the redemption and recreation of creation will be fulfilled. We are reformed in the image of Christ because we were created in the image of God. God gave all authority to Jesus to show us the way to be at peace with God and have life to the full. No other religion promises the fullness of love and building up of the creation through Christianity.

 

[JustAVessel]

My question is why do you believe the bible? What does it offer that you canot find elsewhere in life. And please no one give me an answer along the lines of "to be closer to god" or "to be saved", because these answers require that you already believe in god.
Tom

I believe the Bible, not because I want to, but because I am convinced that it is true. I believe it because I am convinced that it is the infallible Word of God. And I am convinced that anything God wants to tell me is worth listening to. Here is some information about the Bible. I know it's a lot to read, but I wanted to explain why I am convinced of these things. I encourage you to read the Bible and see for yourself what it's about. I will pray for you, and if you have any questions, feel free to PM me. God bless!

The Bible...

• has a rational doctrine about man. It captures both man's nobility and wretchedness, documenting the origin of both. It says that man has spiritual and psychological needs because he was created to have fellowship with his Creator. Man's dignity comes from God and his depravity comes from sin.
• answers hard questions, such as the origin of the universe, the meaning of life, and the character of God.
• has unity among diversity. Although the Bible is composed of 66 books written in 3 different languages, uses 6 literary forms, and was written by 40 authors over a period of 1500 years in countries on 3 continents, the Bible still has doctrinal and structural unity.
• is historical and accurate. It has an evidential foundation. Instead of being based on philosophy, it is based on fact. Its historicity is confirmed by archaeology. Sir William Ramsay, the famous Oxford archaeologist, who was once a skeptic said, "Christianity is the religion of truth; it is founded on truth, absolute and perfect truth."
• is simple and profound. It can communicate, encourage, comfort, convict, and challenge the simple minded and the learned.
• is relavant, even today.
• has endured. Many have tried to wipe the Bible from the face of the Earth, and many have attacked its claims. Well, the Bible's still around. It is estimated that only one half of one percent of all books published survive even seven years, but th eBible's popularity has steadily grown throughout history.
• has a high ethical standard. Jesus taught that purity starts with the heart and then outflows to behavior. Good deeds without a changed heart is only cold legalism. The Bible emphasizes the need for a right attitude and possesses a moral uniqueness that far surpasses the flashes of high moral teaching in other books.
• has proven prophecy. It has repeatedly and accurately foretold many events. One example: Ezekiel 26 prophesied the destruction of Tyre, and in 586 BC Nebuchadnezzar attacked and destroyed the mainland. Daniel 2 describes another attack, and in 332BC, Alexander the Great attacked and destroyed the island.

How Scrpture was formed
The process by which various books in the Bible were gathered and recognized as sacred is called canonization. The word canonicity refers to the quality of being "canonical."
1) God inspired the books. The Bible is written by men who were moved and directed by God. It is not a book of human wisdom. These men who did the physical writing were not simply "human tape recorders" but they were active participants who were allowed to use their own writing style and personalities (For example, the poetry of the Psalms), but they ended up writing exactly what the Holy Spirit wanted them to, and no errors crept in at this point.
2) Man recognized God's books. People recognized the authority and inspiration of the message. This is for both the Old Testament and the New Testament. It is important to note that while people recognized the authenticity and authority of the books, they did not give it. The books of the Bible are not inspired and authoritative because they are simply added to a list. They are included in the list (the canon) because they are acknowledged as inspired. It was determined by God and discovered by men.. Theologian James Packer put it this way: "The church no more gave us the New Testament canon than Sir Isaac Newton gives us the force of gravity."
3) Man collected and preserved the books. Throughout a 1500 year period, God periodically spoke to prophets who recorded His words. When the community recognized the divine authority of a book, it was immediately stored and preserved. The canon was not given at one stated time. "The chain of prophets evidently wrote a chain of histories from Genesis to Nehemiah and the writings of these prophets were accepted, one by one, through the centuries," said R. Laird Harris in inspiration and Canonicity of the Bible. As far as the New Testament is concerned, the books were sent to the intended church, would be read and studied, and circulated. After this circulation, they would be collected. It is evident that by the time Second Peter was written, some of the writings of Paul were already gathered and recognized as Scrptured and considered equivalent in terms of authority and inspiration to the Old Testtament.
Tests of Canonicity
1) Is it written by a prophet or apostle? Such an individual was a spokesman for God, and they faithfully declared it unto the people. Frequently miracles accompanied their messages in order to verify their credentials. An apostle (as opposed to a prophet) was a believer who had witnessed Christ's resurrection and was commissioned by Him to be His witness.
2) Was it recieved by the original community? Every book was initially accepted by the people of God because they recognized the prophets of God. The local populace was crucial in the process of canonicity because they alone would know if a writer was an apostle or prophet. the question is not: was it recognized by the religious community four or five hundred years after the books was written?, but was it recognized as inspired by the initial community. The church counceils that met long after th eNT books had been written and recognized as inspired did not grant inspiration but rather provided a final and formal recognition of what was previously discovered in the first century.
3) Is it authentic? No book can contradict truth and be from God. It must agree with past revelation and posses no historical inaccuracies or moral incongruities.
Transmission of Bible documents
Old Testament:
1) Scribes were diligent keepers of Scripture. There were sopherim, meaning counters, who dveloped a device of counting all the words and letters of each book. After copying a particular book, they would count the words and letters and check this tally against the count of the manuscript that was being replicated. If the numbers did not correspond, there was an error. There were also the Masoretes (sometimes speled Massoretes). They numbered the words and letters of every book, numbered the times each letter was used in each book, calculated the middle word and letter of each book, and they calculated the middle letter of the Pentateuch and of the whole Hebrew Bible.
2) There is confirmation of ancient versions. Our present Old Testament (the Masoretic Text) is confirmed by both the Samaritan Pentateuch and the Septuagint. Both have very early documentation, and both have independent traditions from the Masoretic text. The Pentateuch remained seperate from the Hebrew text that came through the Sopherim and the Masoretes, but is incredibly similar to the Masoretic text. The great majority of the variations were mainly spelling differences, grammar alterations, and substitutions of Samaritan idioms for Hebrew.
3) There are also tens of thousands of late Hebrew manuscripts as well as the infamous Dead Sea Scrolls.
New Testament:
1) Manuscript families. When all existing manuscripts are compared, there are very few significant differences. While there are differences, "Weestcott and Hort (famous Greek scholars) estimated that only about one-eighth of all the variants had any weight, as most of them are merely mechanical matters such as spelling or style" (Norman L. Geisler, A General Introduction to the Bible: Revised and Expanded.
2) Time. The less time that exists between the extinct original work and the oldest extant manuscripts, the more reliable are the existing copies. Older copies of an original work are more accurate and less tampered with than those of a more recent date. Out of the 5000 Greek manuscripts, 250 date before the eighth century, and some even stretch back to the early second century. The codex bezae (ca. 450) is the oldest bilingual manuscript of th eNT. It contains the four Gospels and Acts. The Codex Alexandrinus (ca. 450) contains the whole OT and most of the NT (except for a few passages). The Codex Veticanus (ca. 325) is probably the oldest manuscript written on vellum and one of the most valuable documents that substantiates the integrity of the original NT (Geisler). It includes most of the OT and much of the Greek NT. The John Ryland Fragment (ca. 94-125 AD) was a small fragment found in Egypt, measuring 3.5 by 2.5 inches and is the oldest known manuscript of th NT. It contains a few verses of the Gospel of John on both sides. It shows that the codes form of the book was already in use, that the Gospel circulated to Egypt a few years after it ws written, proves John's Gospel dates to the first century, and demonstrates our modern text reads almost precisely like the first century text. (Neil R. Lightfoot, How We Got the Bible).

 

[masmpg]

Hello PoePom,
There is so much evidence in the bible as the word of God that science has no clue about. Science feebly tries to explain away many miraculous events such as dead coming back to life, the sun going backwards, the worldwide flood. . .the bible is full of sensible explainations for all, especially the birth life death and resurrection of Jesus. There are over 1000 old testament propecies pertaining to this fact. There are even manuscripts the testify to its veracity.

One of the most prominant examples of the truth of the bible is found in Daniel 2. This chapter explains the history of the world kingdoms from the time of Babylon until Jesus second coming. Read about Nebuchadnezzar's dream and the interpretation the Lord gives through Daniel. I could go on all day about this wonderful topic.

God Bless you
Jeff

 

[If Not For Grace]

What does it offer that you canot find elsewhere in life

I have been unable to prove it false in any capacity. It reflects history I have read in other places, teaches a spirituality I can find no fault with and has elements that were later verified by documents that were discovered later. I have found many people who distort it, so I had to read it for myself, it was then,, I really came to believe...

 

[heron]

Some things that I enjoy about the Bible--

-- Jesus, who was the pinnacle of all things religious, was shrewd in cutting down vain religiosity. He saw past men's facades, down to their motives.

-- The Psalms are very comforting when I'm upset, because they echo back to me my thought processes... that even though I'm upset with circumstances, I really do want to rely on God for my help.

-- Proverbs gives me a good inside laugh, because everything that we knew in our consciences was right in relating to other people and in making choices, really turned out to be scriptural. It's the book of "don't be stupid!" (Wiley Publishing wanted first dibs.)

We can debate for centuries about inerrancy, but most Christians value it in the way that people value "Positioning," or "7 Habits of Highly Effective People." We want to learn about life, find solutions, and gain wisdom.

The Bible is a connection with God's heart.

When we find a great writer, we want to read more of their work, and get into their minds. We want to grab onto how they think. When I read the work of Vonnegut, I am fascinated by his thoughts and approaches, and his boldness. I want to meet the guy, and soak in the colors of his language. (Thank you, Rodney Dangerfield. That was so off topic.)

There's also a lot of exploration involved, and I find that the more I read, the more I need to research. So the challenge is interesting.

 

[CASEY82]

My question is why do you believe the bible? What does it offer that you canot find elsewhere in life. And please no one give me an answer along the lines of "to be closer to god" or "to be saved", because these answers require that you already believe in god.

Tom

Hey Tom

I have been a christian for a little over a year now....i dont know if i can give your answer but i can tell you how i am coming to trust and believe in the bible. When you first become a christian there is alot to believe and it's hard at first because we try to define everything in our human logic...it's not until you have actually met with god that you realise that we cannot define him...he is bigger than us all and we try to put him in our shoe box imagination The more i sought god, the more i experienced and the more i experienced first hand things from the bible....there are alot of scriptures in there that i have had in my life..word for word...i am still on my journey to learning about the bible and its scriptures but the more i do...the more my heart opens and the more i can grasp that these were real people, real events that took place. I know at first all this doesnt fit out logic....but its our logic that keeps us from god...the best way to answer your question...is to seek him with all your heart - give it all over to him Tom and see what he will do in you.

Casey

 

[EmbracingHim]

My question is why do you believe the bible? What does it offer that you canot find elsewhere in life. And please no one give me an answer along the lines of "to be closer to god" or "to be saved", because these answers require that you already believe in god.

Tom

Tom,

There are such wonderful answers here already...I probably have little to offer.

A mixture of a famous quote comes to mind...ask not what God can do for you, but what you can do for your God...the answer: nothing that God can't do for himself...correct?

Science has not proven the earth to have been created through the hypotheses given to date. They are hypotheses and nothing more. If they were accurate...I'm sure men would be creating little earths today by mixing and expelling gases and creating small bangs everywhere.

So believing there is a creator provides -- answers for our existence.

Believing that our creator has left His Word with us...or Christianity provides the most scientific proven 'answer' as to Whom our Creator is.

The Bible is the most reproduced, translated book in existence, but is special in that despite all the reproductions and translations it has not changed.

This was found scientifically true to human standards when the Kuram caves were discovered and an exact replica of the Bible was found and compared as late as the 1960's and after the many years...the context of the Bible remains unchanged.

Although Shakespearean reproductions are close to follow in perserverance of original context and material...no other book in existence has withstood time such as the Bible.

So for me -- the Bible or Christianity including all 66 books included therein--are given answers and a path to follow in life.

It is a guidebook.

Life without God would be full of questions, upheaval (as seen through the deperation and ruthless society we live in today), and meaning would be relative and the search for the meaning of life endless and never answered.

So a short summation would be the following: answers, knowledge and perserverance in these truths is what God has given to 'us.' I thank God for this daily -- otherwise my life 'personally' would be such a disarray and without purpose and I'd miss out on what is truly meaningful in life and what exists inside of us and sets us free from the upheaval and destruction that would otherwise exist in blank minds.

What we are given: love, forgiveness, joy, etc., and the knowledge that these things cause health and perservance and joy in us...along with our eternal perspective that causes us to see beyond this earth and the whoas and cares that soon will be abolished and replaced with those qualities of our God: all things good.

 

[Johnnz]

The bible message is contained within an historical context. The Bible can assessed alongside any book or history, usuing exactly the same criteria. The two questions to address are:
a) How do I accept any historical record as being accurate?
b) How does the Bible stack up on those same criteria?

I trust the evidence for may faith recorded in Scripture because te answer to b) is "Extremely well."

John
NZ

 

[calidog]

My question is why do you believe the bible? What does it offer that you canot find elsewhere in life. And please no one give me an answer along the lines of "to be closer to god" or "to be saved", because these answers require that you already believe in god.

Tom

I believe that the bible is the word of God because I believe that God exists and that He has communicated to us through the bible.
I first believed that God must exist, and over the years, after I began reading the bible, my belief in His existence was affirmed in my mind and heart.

 

[heron]

What does it offer that you canot find elsewhere in life.

There is a sense that the Bible is living and breathing.

I know this doesn't make sense, but many believers find that when they read the Bible, what they are reading pertains well to issues in their life. Coincidences and hunches and contacts fall together so gracefully.

This isn't about the Bible, but about the way things knit together --
Yesterday we decided to go to the Saturday evening service, but had a couple hours to kill. We sat in a trendy coffee shop down the street from church (not the Big S), and talked about the cozy decor, the expenses, the predictability of income from having such a comfortable setting. I studied how the decor was put together, and how sitting spaces were enclosed.

The sermon that night was about fellowship, and how The Big S had struck rich because they captured people's need for social contact through providing comfortable space. Then the pastor proceeded to talk about how the church was exploring ideas for a coffee house that would draw people to connect more individually.

My brain was flying, because I had already studied the decor and systems of the coffee house the hour before. (I hadn't been in that establishment all year, and I don't frequent coffee houses.) I knew the sermon before I heard it.

I can't tell you how often God works this way in me. Everything weaves together. He prepares me and makes unusual connections... brings me in and out of people's lives exactly when they need specific help. The religion is alive. There's always something fascinating going on.