Question about Mediums

[Sammygirl76]

I am only new to Christ, and am reading through the bible, I came to 1 Samuel some time ago and asked the question then to people around me but no one gave me a straight answer. But my question is, that in 1 Samuel, Saul goes to a medium who summon's the spirit of Samuel to speak to him and tell Saul that he wont be king. If mediums are not of God, which God has made quite clear in other scriptures, why would he use a medium to send this message to Saul?

 

[cyberlizard]

remember also the story of the 'prophet balaam', he was a divinator, but God used him to his own ends, and the donkey (poor donkey)).

Just because someone/something is accurate does not make the supernatural ability divine.

the greater context of the story though is more important.... it is the person who does not have access to God that seeks the dead, and God rewards them in kind (saul certainly did not get what he wanted).

Steve

 

[calluna]

I am only new to Christ, and am reading through the bible, I came to 1 Samuel some time ago and asked the question then to people around me but no one gave me a straight answer. But my question is, that in 1 Samuel, Saul goes to a medium who summon's the spirit of Samuel to speak to him and tell Saul that he wont be king. If mediums are not of God, which God has made quite clear in other scriptures, why would he use a medium to send this message to Saul?

Anyone born again can give you a straight answer to this. One must understand the reason for God prohibiting the use of mediums. It is not an activity that is inherently sinful, like theft or murder. The Israelites were given the command because they were to trust in God and his oracles. The use of mediums is inappropriate for those who deal directly with God, which was and remains through Scripture, through prophecy and through personal intimation. Use of mediums therefore shows faithlessness. Those who have committed their lives to Christ are given the Holy Spirit, and He guides them, not mediums, who are much more likely to contact evil spirits than 'good' ones, simply because contacting the dead is disobedience of God.

In Saul's case, the use of a medium showed not only that he was faithless, but that he was abandoned by God. It tells us that God's earlier view was entirely justified. But Saul did not learn very much that he did not already know. God had already sent the message to Saul that he would not be king, and via Samuel, too. That God gave additional detailed information does not indicate that spiritism is justified. God can give information to the disobedient, too, and of course it is not what they want to hear.

There are important points to be learned from this incident. One is that contact with the dead is confirmed as possible. (There are those who say that it is not, and that God performed a special miracle on this occasion, but it is absurd to suppose that God would encourage confusion in this matter. It also conflicts with the meaning of Levitical law.) Another we get from Samuel's reaction to Saul, which is that necromancy is undesirable.

Yet another is that the dead are neither entirely extinct, as the Saduccees taught, nor are they in heaven, as far as living mortals are concerned. Samuel, a prophet of God, is now with disobedient Saul and his sons in a place of waiting, and this indicates that all of the dead are in a 'sleep' state until the day of judgement. This concurs with Paul's plain unfigurative explanation of present and future states in 1 Thess 4:13-18. It is therefore not possible to communicate with saints or Mary in communion with God in heaven, because, as far as we on the earth are concerned, they are not there. The born again talk with God Himself as the closest of friends, all the time, and think it quite preposterous to even think of using a go-between of any sort, living or departed.

 

[Simonline]

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[Simonline]

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[Simonline]

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[Sammygirl76]

Thankyou everyone for your responses, I now understand that God only allowed this to happen once so that Saul who was completely rebellious against God would get the picture, not that he completely did because he tried to kill David so many times to stop God's hand from moving.

One thing that Simononline said that struck me as interesting is

That's why the final criteria should NEVER be whether or not 'it works' (since demons can counterfeit miracles and prophesy) but rather, 'is it consistent with the Truth that God has revealed' (i.e. the Judeo-Christian Scriptures (Isa.8:20

))

I always believed this that demon's could pretend, and having come from a background where my family is very into mediums and clarevoyants I would say this. My aunty once went to a clairvoyant and she was told that she would have twins and she got pregnant with twins but lost them due to having cancer. Anyway I often said that yes they can speak but it's not God or dead people telling her yet satan speaking to the clairvoyant. I said this at bible college, and was told that I was giving Satan too much credit that he didn't have the power to see into the future and they couldn't explain how this woman knew. Is that right? Does he have the power to know what will happen?

I must say at this point though, that I know definately that going to these people, mediums and clairvoyants is wrong and never ever would I go there, but the subject confuses me on how they know these things are going to happen, as I don't believe that God would speak to these people.

 

[calluna]

God only allowed this to happen once

If God did that, why did he command Israel not to 'turn to mediums or seek out spiritists' (Lev 19:31)?

 

[Sammygirl76]

If God did that, why did he command Israel not to 'turn to mediums or seek out spiritists' (Lev 19:31)?

I don't understand what you mean, I know that God told the Israelites not to turn to them, that was why I was confused that he would have put Saul's story in the bible and allowed it to happen in 1 Samuel.

 

[visio]

I am only new to Christ, and am reading through the bible, I came to 1 Samuel some time ago and asked the question then to people around me but no one gave me a straight answer. But my question is, that in 1 Samuel, Saul goes to a medium who summon's the spirit of Samuel to speak to him and tell Saul that he wont be king. If mediums are not of God, which God has made quite clear in other scriptures, why would he use a medium to send this message to Saul?

Contrary to what some christians will tell you summoning is of the devil... God does not work that way, never has, never will... God has always strictly forbidden it and has warned us in the Bible:

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;" -1 Tim 4:1

Also the Bible is quite clear that the dead are asleep and cannot be summoned... so this was not Samuel nor was it a good angel(of course), it was an evil angel...

The Bible says in Ecclesiastes 9:5:
"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."
The dead are in their graves and remain there until the second coming, do you think God is going to let them be resurrected prematurely for a little while so the devil can use them or even so that He can use them?

Back to Ecclesiastes 9:5... the verse says that they have no reward... if the dead went to heaven or hell when they died they would be rewarded then and there so obviously there rewards on this earth are over and their eternal reward awaits them at the resurrection.

Ecclesiastes 9:10 “Whatsoever your hand findeth to do, do it with your might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither you goest.”

Job 14:12 “So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.”

John 5:28-29 “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”

Does it make any sense that at Christ coming Christ would commission those in heaven and hell to return to the grave so He could raise them again... return the evil to hell and send the good back to heaven? No and the verse is quite clear that the dead will be raised at the second coming but until then are sleeping in the grave...

Some of you will wonder why I am making a "big" deal over this and think I am promoting what I believe... that is not the case. The bible is very clear that in the end there will be devils masquerading as dead loved ones, if we believe they are able to come back to life then we will be fooled. So it is important to know that the dead cannot live again until the 2nd coming and so they cannot be summoned...

 

[calluna]

I don't understand what you mean, I know that God told the Israelites not to turn to them, that was why I was confused that he would have put Saul's story in the bible and allowed it to happen in 1 Samuel.

Sorry, we may be at cross purposes. So you are not saying that it is impossible to communicate with the departed?

 

[Sammygirl76]

No I don't believe it is possible to talk to the dead, what I said was that I was confused how come Saul did it in 1 Samuel, if he wasn't talking to Samuel who was he talking to? And is that what happens when people go to clairvoyants, is it the devil that is speaking through the medium, witch or clairvoyant, because this is what I have always believed.

 

[Sammygirl76]

But I also wanted to know why the bible made a point to add this part of Saul's life, when God is so clear that mediums are wrong.

 

[visio]

But I also wanted to know why the bible made a point to add this part of Saul's life, when God is so clear that mediums are wrong.

Why is David's sin with Bathsheba in the bible? As a warning to others who should come after...

 

[calluna]

No I don't believe it is possible to talk to the dead

Because?

what I said was that I was confused how come Saul did it in 1 Samuel, if he wasn't talking to Samuel who was he talking to?

I thought you were asking how God could break his own commandment, and allow contact with the dead despite it being against Mosaic Law.

And is that what happens when people go to clairvoyants, is it the devil that is speaking through the medium, witch or clairvoyant, because this is what I have always believed.

Why have you always believed it?
.

 

[Sammygirl76]

I don't know why I have always believed it, I just have.

 

[Simonline]

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[Simonline]

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[Simonline]

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[Simonline]

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