Question About LCMS

[nowsthetime]

So I'm on the movement looking for a good denomination to be apart of. I currently go to a ELCA church that I am fairly content with, but I go to college and when I go home, there are no ELCA churches nearby, but there are a LCMS church about 45 minutes away that I'd like to try.

Could someone explain why there is closed communion? Does LCMS even recognize ELCA as a valid church with a few differences?

I was ready to go, but closed communion makes me nervous... We are all brothers and sisters in Christ, right? Anyway, I'm just really ignorant when it comes to LCMS and I'd like to be enlightened before I go to one.

Thanks

 

[Plutonius]

The LCMS website could do much better of a job that I can explain doctrines. Unfortunately I have not enough posts to post a link. Just Google Lutheran Church Missouri Synod then click the FAQ on the left side. I do find that some LCMS churches only allow the members to partake in communion, my church allows all Baptized Christians.

 

[DaRev]

So I'm on the movement looking for a good denomination to be apart of. I currently go to a ELCA church that I am fairly content with, but I go to college and when I go home, there are no ELCA churches nearby, but there are a LCMS church about 45 minutes away that I'd like to try.

Could someone explain why there is closed communion? Does LCMS even recognize ELCA as a valid church with a few differences?

I was ready to go, but closed communion makes me nervous... We are all brothers and sisters in Christ, right? Anyway, I'm just really ignorant when it comes to LCMS and I'd like to be enlightened before I go to one.

Thanks

The big difference bewteen the ELCA and LCMS is how we view Scripture. The LCMS holds that the Bible IS the inerrant, inspired word of God and the source and norm of teaching in the Church. The ELCA maintains that the Bible CONTAINS the inerrant, inspired word of God, thus opening up the possibility that parts of the Bible are not God's word but merely humnan opinion and thus do not necessarily apply.

Close Communion is a Biblical teaching that is based on two parts. First, a person must be a believer. He must believe that he is a sinner in need of God's forgiveness. He must believe that in the Sacrament we receive the very body and blood of Christ, given and shed on the cross, into our mouth to eat and drink for the forgiveness of sins. One who does not believe this is not worthy to receive and would be committing a sin and bringing God's judgement upon himself if he did receive. The pastor, not wanting anyone to sin and bring judgement upon themsleves, will require this belief before communing them. This teaching comes from 1 Corinthians 11.

Second, communion is a public proclamation of faith. When one kneels at the altar and receives the Sacrament, they are saying that they are in fellowship with the confession of faith held at that altar. Those who hold to a differing confession of faith should not commune since they are not in fellowship with the doctrine of that altar. This teaching comes from Acts 2 and 1 Corinthians 10.

Since the ELCA does not accept all of Scripture as binding on the Church, these passages are not the basis of their communion fellowship, thus their fellowship with church bodies who reject the Real Presence of Christ's body and blood in the Sacrament. Those who do not believe that Christ's body and blood are truly present in the Sacrament are sinning according to 1 Corinthians 11:27-29.

The practice of Close Communion is truly a loving and caring practice intended to protect both the individual recipient from sinning and doing spiritual harm to themselves by unworthy reception, and also protects the confession of the altar (the teachings of the particular Church) by barring heterodox confessions from being proclaimed there.


Hope that helps.

 

[Studeclunker]

Nothing to be nervous about, they just won't commune you. There is a thread (have been several in fact) on close communion. Things do get rather testy between ELCA and the more conservative sects of the Lutheran church. This is largely due to the licence that ELCA has taken with theology and doctrine. LCMS is supposed to be a notch more conservative though there can be congregations that are as liberal as ELCA.

So don't worry or be nervous. They won't eat you (LOL)! The worst that might happen is you'll be ignored.

 

[nowsthetime]

So assuming that I was a member of ELCA, I wouldn't be able to take communion?

Would LCMS look at ELCA as a more liberal brother in Christ or does LCMS think ELCA members are "unworthy" (from the 1 Corinthians passage) ?

 

[DaRev]

So assuming that I was a member of ELCA, I wouldn't be able to take communion?

First what you need to do is make time to speak with the LCMS pastor whose church you would be attending. Ask him to explain their communion policy. Some pastors hold more strictly to the "closed" meaning than do others. He will be able to assist you there much better than any of us could here.

If the particular congregation and pastor are worth their salt, they will not ignore you, but will welcome you and inquire about you and your background.

Would LCMS look at ELCA as a more liberal brother in Christ or does LCMS think ELCA members are "unworthy" (from the 1 Corinthians passage) ?

The aspect of "unworthiness" has to do with your individual belief concerning the Sacrament and your relationship with God. The aspect of fellowship has to do with what your confession of faith is, which is usually determined by which church body you are a member of. You may be considered "worthy" according to 1 Corinthians 11, but you may not be in fellowship with the apostle's teachings according to 1 Corinthians 10. Since the ELCA rejects much of the apostle's teachings, they are not in fellowship with us.

Again, I advise you to speak with the pastor of that congregation. He can give you much more in the way of details.

It could very well be that the pastor will commune you as a visitor, but you will need to speak with him to make that determination. If you were to attend there regularly, he would most likely require you to become a member of the church.

 

[nowsthetime]

That pretty much answers my questions.

Thanks to everyone who responded.

 

[TCat]

My LCMS church allows anyone who agrees with the confessional creed posted before communion to partake, whether or not they are baptised or members of our church.
Each person must judge themselves and decide if they are in a place of proper repentance and faith.
No pastor or other person can know what is in ones heart, that is between God and the individual.

Go check out the LCMS church near you, some are terrific, others are dying out from lack of love and passion for God and His Word and His people.

Good luck

 

[DaRev]

My LCMS church allows anyone who agrees with the confessional creed posted before communion to partake, whether or not they are baptised or members of our church.

What a horrid, uncaring, unloving practice to allow people to sin at the altar and eat and drink to their judgement.
It is the pastor's responsibility, as the Spiritual shepherd of his flock and the steward or the mysteries of God, to know whether those who partake are doing so in accord with the word of God, which is VERY clear on the subject.

Why is this congregation even a member of the LCMS??

I grow disheartened with the synod daily.

 

[TCat]

I think we have to agree to disagree on this one Rev.

 

[DaRev]

I think we have to agree to disagree on this one Rev.

"Agreeing to disagree" is something that I never do. That would equate to tolerating error, which I cannot do.

So, you don't agree with Scripture??

 

[QuiltAngel]

My LCMS church allows anyone who agrees with the confessional creed posted before communion to partake, whether or not they are baptised or members of our church.
Each person must judge themselves and decide if they are in a place of proper repentance and faith.
No pastor or other person can know what is in ones heart, that is between God and the individual.

Go check out the LCMS church near you, some are terrific, others are dying out from lack of love and passion for God and His Word and His people.

Good luck

Have these people spoken with the Pastor before communion? Or is it a "come one come all" thing?

If it is a "come one come all", I have a hard time too.

What a horrid, uncaring, unloving practice to allow people to sin at the altar and eat and drink to their judgement.
It is the pastor's responsibility, as the Spiritual shepherd of his flock and the steward or the mysteries of God, to know whether those who partake are doing so in accord with the word of God, which is VERY clear on the subject.

Why is this congregation even a member of the LCMS??

I grow disheartened with the synod daily.

My thoughts too.

 

[synger]

Have these people spoken with the Pastor before communion? Or is it a "come one come all" thing?

If it is a "come one come all", I have a hard time too.

I didn't get the impression it was a "come one come all" thing. The poster said "My LCMS church allows anyone who agrees with the confessional creed posted before communion to partake" [emphasis mine] That's what my church does, too. It is written in our bulletin what Lutherans believe about Communion. And they are directed to talk to the pastor if they have questions or want to know more. But if they agree with the beliefs, they are welcome to the table.

 

[Plutonius]

At my church you have to believe that the Lord is present in the communion bread and wine and agree with other theological doctrines. You must also be baptized and a confessing Christian. This is a sharp contrast with mainline protestant denominations way of the Lord`s Supper ,which is, come one come all, its only a symbol anyway.

 

[TCat]

At my church we recite a confessional creed, which states in part that by partaking we are acknowledging the body and blood of Christ as being real and present in the bread and wine, we ask humbly that our sins be forgiven and that the elements be given for the strengthening of our faiths and lives.
The Pastor tells the congregation that if they are in agreement with this statement they are wlecome to come to the table, if not but they desire a blessing instead they are welcome to come for that.

I simply cannot find anywhere in Scripture saying that a pastor has the authority to withhold the means of grace, given by God from a Christian.

We believe that God comes to us through the Holy Spirit and gives us faith, but cannot have faith that the Holy Spirit convicts us of our sins and enables us to examine ourselves before partaking? We are instead to give our spiritual health and wellbeing into the hands of a pastor who may or may not being walking in Spirit and Truth???

No thanks

 

[LilLamb219]

Welcome to the boards, TCat!

 

[DaRev]

I simply cannot find anywhere in Scripture saying that a pastor has the authority to withhold the means of grace, given by God from a Christian.

Pastors can and do have the responsibility to withhold that which could be spiritual harmful to an individual. He has that responsibility and authoriuty given him by God.

Matthew 18:18. "I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

Hebrews 13:17, "Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you."

These passages deal directly with the called office. Pastors, whose call is from God and not from Man, are the stewards of the mysteries. It is their responsibility to see to the spiritual well being of their flock.

Scripture also tells us about worthy reception of the Sacrament.

1 Corinthians 11:27-29, "Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself."

What kind of pastor does not care for the spiritual well being of people enough to keep them from bring such spiritual harm upon themselves?

We believe that God comes to us through the Holy Spirit and gives us faith, but cannot have faith that the Holy Spirit convicts us of our sins and enables us to examine ourselves before partaking? We are instead to give our spiritual health and wellbeing into the hands of a pastor who may or may not being walking in Spirit and Truth???

If your pastor is not walking in spirit and truth, I suggest you contact your congregational leadership or the circuit counsellor.

God gives us called and ordained pastors through whom He teaches and preaches His word. It is his responsibility to make sure that those who partake of the Sacrament do so to their benefit and not to their judgement. Open communion is an unloving, uncaring practice that endangers the spiritual lives of people.
It is not, nor has it ever been, the practice of the LCMS.

 

[TCat]

Maybe I am mistaken I thought the 1 Cor passage regarding communion states "a man ought to examine himself", not "a man should rely on his pastor to decide whether or not he should eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
Correct me if I am wrong, I thought that Christ came that we might freely approach the throne of grace and recieve mercy without intercession or interference from a priest or pastor.
I thought the curtain had been torn away. Now I am hearing that I need a pastor's approval to determine my heart and faith before recieving God's provision and mercy?
hmmm, this is not a good thing...have to think about this one.

 

[TheCosmicGospel]

Everyone in the ELCA would meet the "communion rail" of TCat's church. Not a problem?

Maybe you might want to see what is going on in the ELCA. Checkout the Lutherans Reform website. Read the FAQ's. If the one on apostasy in the ELCA does not raise concerns about such a communion stance, nothing will.

As far as I can tell, Lutherans Reform! is mainly those inside ELCA, not LCMS, addressing their concerns about their synod. When you are a member of a church that turns apostate, it is time to lock and load, rock and roll. Not offering them communion may be the most loving thing to do for them in the hopes that they make an important decision.

Cheers,
Cosmic

 

[porterross]

Well stated, Cosmic.