Question about imputation of Christ's righteousness

abacabb3 · Oct 5, 2013

I am not a theology expert so I appreciate any help on this.

The Scripture is unequivocally clear about our sins being imputed/credited to Christ.

But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities (...)
For the transgressions of My people He was stricken. (...)
And He bore the sin of many,
And made intercession for the transgressors.
(Is 53:5, 8, 12)

Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree&#8221
(Gal 3:13)

And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
(Col 2:13-14)

Now, I know of the teaching that not only has Christ paid the debt for our sin, but I believe it is taught that His perfect righteousness is imputed/credited to us:

And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight.
(Col 1:21-22)

For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.
(Col 3:3-4)

For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. (2 Cor 5:21)

My question is this: Are we individually made righteous with Christ's righteousness or are we righteous because God sees Christ with us?

I'm starting to believe the latter, because the Scripture says our lives are "hidden with Christ in God" and we have been "made alive together with Him." Christians "become the righteousness of God in Him." If we are one flesh with Christ (Eph 5:31-32), then God doesn't see me as righteous as Christ because His righteousness is personally credited to me, but rather the church is one flesh with Christ and thereby in God's eyes identical with Christ. So, if this is correct, God sees Himself as righteous and we are only made righteous because He has forgiven our sins and hidden us in Christ.

I am open to correction on this. Am I crazy?

SavedByGraceThruFaith · Oct 5, 2013

abacabb3 said:
I am not a theology expert so I appreciate any help on this.

The Scripture is unequivocally clear about our sins being imputed/credited to Christ.

Now, I know of the teaching that not only has Christ paid the debt for our sin, but I believe it is taught that His perfect righteousness is imputed/credited to us:

My question is this: Are we individually made righteous with Christ's righteousness or are we righteous because God sees Christ with us?

I'm starting to believe the latter, because the Scripture says our lives are "hidden with Christ in God" and we have been "made alive together with Him." Christians "become the righteousness of God in Him." If we are one flesh with Christ (Eph 5:31-32), then God doesn't see me as righteous as Christ because His righteousness is personally credited to me, but rather the church is one flesh with Christ and thereby in God's eyes identical with Christ. So, if this is correct, God sees Himself as righteous and we are only made righteous because He has forgiven our sins and hidden us in Christ.

I am open to correction on this. Am I crazy?

Individuals are saved. They become the church, the body of Christ.

No one has righteousness except Jesus Christ, so God just counts the saved as righteous by the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ.

abacabb3 · Oct 5, 2013

SavedByGraceThruFaith said:
Individuals are saved. They become the church, the body of Christ.

No one has righteousness except Jesus Christ, so God just counts the saved as righteous by the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ.

That's what I have been taught too, but can you show me Scripture for what I underlined in your quote?

SavedByGraceThruFaith · Oct 5, 2013

abacabb3 said:
That's what I have been taught too, but can you show me Scripture for what I underlined in your quote?

Romans 4:3-9, 20-25
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Romans 3:19-26
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Romans 10:3-4
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Mediaeval · Oct 5, 2013

While Christ's righteousness may be ours by virtue of our union with Him, I don't see that as the imputation that St Paul was speaking of in Romans. Abraham believed God and it, Abraham's faith, was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. Christ's active obedience is not in view here. So God imputes righteousness to the sinner in the sense that, when the sinner believes in Christ, God considers and declares him righteous, justified, forgiven, "right with" Him.

SavedByGraceThruFaith · Oct 5, 2013

Mediaeval said:
While Christ's righteousness may be ours by virtue of our union with Him, I don't see that as the imputation that St Paul was speaking of in Romans. Abraham believed God and it, Abraham's faith, was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. Christ's active obedience is not in view here. So God imputes righteousness to the sinner in the sense that, when the sinner believes in Christ, God considers and declares him righteous, justified, forgiven, "right with" Him.

The imputed righteousness is of God, that is, the righteousness of Jesus Christ.

Romans 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

abacabb3 · Oct 6, 2013

Again, I am sure readers are aware that the theology built around imputed righteousness, that is, a concept in Christian theology that proposes that the "righteousness of Christ ... is imputed to [believers] — that is, treated as if it were theirs through faith."

Also from wiki:
"By this terminology, they mean that God legally credits the believer with the righteous acts that Christ performed while on this earth."

These are pretty fair summaries of what I have been taught in two churches. These ideas make a lot of sense (they explain CHrist's nature, why He came here, and they make sense of everything in the Old Testament that refers to us having to be perfectly righteous, which is simply not possible--which logically leads us to the conclusion that Christ was perfectly righteous on our behalf.)

However, where is the explicit Scripture for this explicit idea? No one questions that God imputes righteousness to the believer and that God imputes all of our sin onto Christ. I just don't see where the Scripture says that when I die, God will not see me but instead see all of Christ's righteousness.

Let me just make clear, the Scripture does say we have the Holy Spirit and CHrist in us, so God can implicitly be looking at Himself and not at ourselves when judging us. But again, this is a conclusion drawn from an implication. What the Scripture explicitly states, as shown in the first post, we are literally in Christ and hidden in Him. To me, this imagery is different than a very strict reading of me literally having Christ's righteousness in myself.

Hammster · Oct 6, 2013

abacabb3 said:
Again, I am sure readers are aware that the theology built around imputed righteousness, that is, a concept in Christian theology that proposes that the "righteousness of Christ ... is imputed to [believers] that is, treated as if it were theirs through faith."

Also from wiki:
"By this terminology, they mean that God legally credits the believer with the righteous acts that Christ performed while on this earth."

These are pretty fair summaries of what I have been taught in two churches. These ideas make a lot of sense (they explain CHrist's nature, why He came here, and they make sense of everything in the Old Testament that refers to us having to be perfectly righteous, which is simply not possible--which logically leads us to the conclusion that Christ was perfectly righteous on our behalf.)

However, where is the explicit Scripture for this explicit idea? No one questions that God imputes righteousness to the believer and that God imputes all of our sin onto Christ. I just don't see where the Scripture says that when I die, God will not see me but instead see all of Christ's righteousness.

Let me just make clear, the Scripture does say we have the Holy Spirit and CHrist in us, so God can implicitly be looking at Himself and not at ourselves when judging us. But again, this is a conclusion drawn from an implication. What the Scripture explicitly states, as shown in the first post, we are literally in Christ and hidden in Him. To me, this imagery is different than a very strict reading of me literally having Christ's righteousness in myself.

It's in the same place where Scripture explicitly states the doctrine of the Trinity.

abacabb3 · Oct 6, 2013

Hammster said:
It's in the same place where Scripture explicitly states the doctrine of the Trinity.

God being a trinity is at least referred to twice (end of Matthew and end of 2 COrinthians) and the Scripture refers to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit explicitly as God in different sections.

So, what I am looking for any Scriptural reference to the idea that "God legally credits the believer with the righteous acts that Christ performed while on this earth." I have been thrown into doubt about this, as I don't see the Scripture endorsing this position, but rather that God gives us the Spirit of Christ and hides us in Himself and because of this become the righteousness of God.

Hammster · Oct 6, 2013

abacabb3 said:
God being a trinity is at least referred to twice (end of Matthew and end of 2 COrinthians) and the Scripture refers to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit explicitly as God in different sections.

So, what I am looking for any Scriptural reference to the idea that "God legally credits the believer with the righteous acts that Christ performed while on this earth." I have been thrown into doubt about this, as I don't see the Scripture endorsing this position, but rather that God gives us the Spirit of Christ and hides us in Himself and because of this become the righteousness of God.

Sorry, but your claim of explicit references to the Trinity fall short. Can an argument be made from scripture to defend the Trinity? Yes. But their are a lot of implied references that are put together to make that argument.

So if you are looking for explicit references to your dilemma, it's not going to happen.

abacabb3 · Oct 6, 2013

Hammster said:
Sorry, but your claim of explicit references to the Trinity fall short. Can an argument be made from scripture to defend the Trinity? Yes. But their are a lot of implied references that are put together to make that argument.

So if you are looking for explicit references to your dilemma, it's not going to happen.

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (matt 28:19)

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all. (2 Cor 13:14)

I feel that it is relatively explicit. The imputation of our sin onto Christ is also explicit, but not His righteousness.

Now, as seen in the original post, the Scripture is explicit that God sees us with Christ and in Him. So to me, the Law is fulfilled in Christ and we are credited righteousness because God sees us alongside Christ. However, we are not literally filled with His righteousness in our body, even though Christ is literally filled with our sin. Show me where the Scripture contradicts this.

hedrick · Oct 6, 2013

Right. Paul says that faith is imputed to us as righteousness. He does not say that Christ's righteousness is imputed to us. As Mediaeval says, Paul's concept is that in faith we are united to Christ, and in union with him die to sin and are raised to new life. The fact that we are Christ's allows God to accept us, i.e. to consider us justified. That's why the faith that unites us to Christ is imputed as righteousness.

Why does this matter? Because the concept that Christ's righteousness is imputed to us is based on an incorrect definition of righteousness. Many Protestant writers consider righteousness to require moral perfection. Since we obviously can't do that, we need Christ's righteousness. But righteousness simply indicates that we have a proper status before God. We could get that by moral perfection, of course, but God chooses to accept our faith as the basis for proper standing with him.

sdowney717 · Oct 6, 2013

abacabb3 said:
Again, I am sure readers are aware that the theology built around imputed righteousness, that is, a concept in Christian theology that proposes that the "righteousness of Christ ... is imputed to [believers] — that is, treated as if it were theirs through faith."

Also from wiki:
"By this terminology, they mean that God legally credits the believer with the righteous acts that Christ performed while on this earth."

These are pretty fair summaries of what I have been taught in two churches. These ideas make a lot of sense (they explain CHrist's nature, why He came here, and they make sense of everything in the Old Testament that refers to us having to be perfectly righteous, which is simply not possible--which logically leads us to the conclusion that Christ was perfectly righteous on our behalf.)

However, where is the explicit Scripture for this explicit idea? No one questions that God imputes righteousness to the believer and that God imputes all of our sin onto Christ. I just don't see where the Scripture says that when I die, God will not see me but instead see all of Christ's righteousness.

Let me just make clear, the Scripture does say we have the Holy Spirit and CHrist in us, so God can implicitly be looking at Himself and not at ourselves when judging us. But again, this is a conclusion drawn from an implication. What the Scripture explicitly states, as shown in the first post, we are literally in Christ and hidden in Him. To me, this imagery is different than a very strict reading of me literally having Christ's righteousness in myself.

What your describing is a very deep mystery. And it has to do with us who believe becoming part of the family of God. It is a wonderful thing to be a part of His family, being called the children of God.

Ephesians 3

8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,

9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ;

10 to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places, 11 according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord,

12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him. 13 Therefore I ask that you do not lose heart at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.

Appreciation of the Mystery

14 For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

15 from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— 19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

20 Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us, 21 to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen.

Making this known, declaring this, the purpose of the church, those He is gathering to Himself as His family we are, to the angelic powers both fallen and elect, that which He has accomplished for us in Christ, the manifold wisdom of God in revealing the sons of God into the creation. And this is a very wonderful and amazing mystery that He has done. And it is all for His glory. Things into which angels long to look. And the whole family is rejoicing in this both in earth and in heaven. At least they should on earth. Definitely in heaven they do.

Hammster · Oct 6, 2013

abacabb3 said:
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (matt 28:19)

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all. (2 Cor 13:14)

I feel that it is relatively explicit. The imputation of our sin onto Christ is also explicit, but not His righteousness.

Now, as seen in the original post, the Scripture is explicit that God sees us with Christ and in Him. So to me, the Law is fulfilled in Christ and we are credited righteousness because God sees us alongside Christ. However, we are not literally filled with His righteousness in our body, even though Christ is literally filled with our sin. Show me where the Scripture contradicts this.

If that's you think is explicit then this is explicit:

He made the One who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. (2 Corinthians 5:21 HCSB)

God presented Him to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be righteous and declare righteous the one who has faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:26 HCSB)

abacabb3 · Oct 7, 2013

Hammster, I am really looking for help on this, because I am not some sort of theologian. I'm not comfortable deviating from what I have been taught (though it appears that hedrisk and sdowney have been taught what I have read into in Scripture.)

What you quoted is explicit. God definitely credits us righteousness as a result of our faith, like Abraham. So, no one disagrees that God is a judge that looks at His people who place their faith in Christ and He overlooks (actually, literally takes onto Himself) their sins and then declares them righteous because of their faith.

The whole question is, how does God literally see us when He declares us righteous?

The imputation of righteousness claims that we are righteous before God because we are credited all of Christ's righteousness onto our account. So, God sees in our works, Christ's works.

However, the Scripture states that Christ is imputed our sin, but never says we are imputed His righteousness, as far as I know.

The Scripture does say we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, that we are married to Christ, that we are credited righteousness "in Christ."

So, I think the Scripture leads us to a subtly different understanding. God doesn't see in us Christ's works. Instead, God doesn't see us at all, but rather Christ in our place.

By analogy, let's pretend you have a credit rating of 540 and you want to buy a house. The bank says no. The imputation of righteousness camp believes that Christ has a credit rating of 850 and those who have faith in Him have their bank account made identical to Christ's, so that their credit rating is 850 as well.

However, what I am positing if you permit me to think aloud, is that if God is the bank, while he would have rejected our loan based on our 540 credit rating, if we have faith in Christ, when we apply for the loan the bank doesn't see us applying for it. Instead, Christ applies for it on our behalf, we're just hidden in the fine print.

This isn't some crazy analogy. I have a good credit rating (like 830 or something and a paid-off condo) and my wife has a non-existent credit rating. So, before we were married, no one would give her a credit card, let alone a car or anything else. But now we are married and she can get anything I can get.

So, it is the same with Christ, if not so much more, as He has perfect credit, so perfect, that our association with him makes our accounts before God completely perfect.

I do not believe I am positing a radically different imputation theology. Rather, I am against the idea that I am personally and literally righteous like Christ. Rather, I am seen that way because by God's grace He has indwelt His Spirit in me and in that union God no longer sees me and my sin, but sees Himself.

Hammster · Oct 7, 2013

To be declared righteous IS imputed righteousness. So wherever is Christ's is ours.

Together with Christ Jesus He also raised us up and seated us in the heavens, (Ephesians 2:6 HCSB)

abacabb3 · Oct 7, 2013

Hammster said:
To be declared righteous IS imputed righteousness. So wherever is Christ's is ours.

Together with Christ Jesus He also raised us up and seated us in the heavens, (Ephesians 2:6 HCSB)

I agree, but am I just being dense? Is there a difference between being credited righteousness because we are with/in Christ, and the idea of righteousness literally being credited to our individual account?

Hammster · Oct 7, 2013

abacabb3 said:
I agree, but am I just being dense? Is there a difference between being credited righteousness because we are with/in Christ, and the idea of righteousness literally being credited to our individual account?

I think you're making a difference without a distinction. To me, it's the same.

abacabb3 · Oct 7, 2013

Hammster said:
I think you're making a difference without a distinction. To me, it's the same.

Well obviously, the fact that God sees us righteous is what's important.

However, the process to how this actually occurs (as the way substitutionary atonement is often illustrated) is something that is not critical to understand, but has importance. So, I guess I'm trying to grapple with exactly how substitutionary atonement work, because I always had a very straight forward view and now I can't get this idea out of my head that now that i am in Christ, it is impossible for God to see me individually in my spiritually dead state. I am literally united with God spiritually (not in my flesh) because as a Christian, I am indwelt with the Spirit.

Is that correct?

Hammster · Oct 7, 2013

abacabb3 said:
Well obviously, the fact that God sees us righteous is what's important.

However, the process to how this actually occurs (as the way substitutionary atonement is often illustrated) is something that is not critical to understand, but has importance. So, I guess I'm trying to grapple with exactly how substitutionary atonement work, because I always had a very straight forward view and now I can't get this idea out of my head that now that i am in Christ, it is impossible for God to see me individually in my spiritually dead state. I am literally united with God spiritually (not in my flesh) because as a Christian, I am indwelt with the Spirit.

Is that correct?

That's the truth.

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