Question about heaven

[Eishiba]

Does the bible say that Christians will go to heaven? Or will we simply sleep in our graves until Christhe returns?

 

[eleos1954]

Does the bible say that Christians will go to heaven? Or will we simply sleep in our graves until Christhe returns?

Some think when we die ... a "soul" goes to heaven .... this denotes immortality ... no we are NOT immortal and aside from a few special resurrections ... the masses wait in a dormant sleep in the grave until Christ returns .... THEN .... receive immortality ... not before.

A soul is the entire makeup of a human being ...

The use of the word “soul” is speaking to someone’s complete identity. The Bible uses these terms as a way of closely identifying with an individual—it’s not referring to a separate entity, life force, or energy.

 

[Blade]

Does the bible say that Christians will go to heaven? Or will we simply sleep in our graves until Christhe returns?

When Christ was on the cross what did He say to the thief? Today you will be with me in paradise. there ya go. So from this life to the Father.

 

[St_Worm2]

Hello @Eishiba, the historic Christian Church (all of it) has always held that the Sleep of the Soul during the Intermediate State is a heretical doctrine. Here are some of the passages that tell us why the church believes/teaches that this is so.

Matthew 17
1 Six days later Jesus took with Him Peter and James and John his brother, and led them up on a high mountain by themselves.
2 And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light.
3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.​

Luke 16
19 “Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day.
20 “And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores,
21 and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man’s table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores.
22 “Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.
23 “In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 “And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’
25 “But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.
26 ‘And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’
27 “And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house—
28 for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’
30 “But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’
31 “But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’​

2 Corinthians 5
6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.
7 For we walk by faith, not by sight.
8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him.​

Philippians 1
21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.
22 But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose.
23 But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better;
24 yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake.
25 Convinced of this, I know that I will remain and continue with you all for your progress and joy in the faith,
26 so that your proud confidence in me may abound in Christ Jesus through my coming to you again.​

Revelation 6
9 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained;
10 and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
11 And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.​

.
And here are some of the arguments that are made against soul sleep on the basis of the Scriptures that I just posted above.

1) Moses and Elijah met with the Lord Jesus and the Apostles on top of the Mount of Transfiguration. If the doctrine of Soul Sleep is true, how were they able to do that?​

2) How can those who are absent from the body make it their aim to do anything, much less to be well-pleasing to the Lord, if their souls are not conscious when they are with Him after they die?​

3) How could Paul have possibly believed it better to depart and be with Christ, if "being with Christ" meant nothing more than lying interred in an unconscious state until the end of the age?​

4) How could the Apostle say that, "to die is gain", if dying means nothing more than lying dead in the ground with our bodies until the resurrection?​

5) Finally, how do those who are in Hades, Paradise, and/or under the altar in Heaven, "cry out in a loud voice", if their souls are not conscious in death ​

.
It's because of passages such as these that ALL of the churches and denominations (Catholic AND Protestant) within the pale of Christian orthodoxy (specifically), and historic Christianity (in general), have taught/continue to teach that the doctrine of the "Sleep of the Soul" during the Intermediate State is heretical ..

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - I pasted the above from a post that I made on the same topic recently, just FYI.

 

[Eishiba]

When Christ was on the cross what did He say to the thief? Today you will be with me in paradise. there ya go. So from this life to the Father.

But Jesus didn't see the thief that day. It wasn't until after Jesus rose into heaven 3 days later right?

 

[public hermit]

Does the bible say that Christians will go to heaven? Or will we simply sleep in our graves until Christhe returns?

Most of church tradition has affirmed an intermediate state between death and resurrection. That seems a bit time bound to me, as if God is within the linear flow of time, but no one knows because the scriptures are ambiguous. Some statements make it seem immediate so that the moment after death we are with Christ, and others clearly indicate the dead are waiting to be raised. The tradition has tried to make both work. We'll see.

 

[St_Worm2]

But Jesus didn't see the thief that day. It wasn't until after Jesus rose into heaven 3 days later right?

Hello again Eishiba, what happened, and where the Lord Jesus was during the time between His death and His Resurrection, is controversial.

If He descended into Hades (otherwise known as Sheol/"the place or realm of the dead" in the OT), He went to the region of Hades that was occupied by the "righteous" dead/OT "believers". This portion of Sheol is known as Paradise or Abraham's Bosom or Heaven (e.g. see Luke 16:23 in my last post).

Finally, here are a couple of short articles about this that may prove to be useful to you (if you'd like to look into this topic a bit further).

Did Jesus go to hell between His death and resurrection? | GotQuestions.org

What is the difference between Sheol, Hades, Hell, the lake of fire, Paradise, and Abraham’s bosom? | GotQuestions.org
​

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - one last thing, the Lord Jesus told the thief on the cross beside Him that he would be with Him in Paradise that very day (so I assume that that is exactly what happened). Also, three days after His death, the Lord Jesus was resurrected bodily here on Earth, and He remained here among us until His Ascension, 40 days later.

Here's the video from one of the articles that I posted above.

.

 

[Sorn]

Does the bible say that Christians will go to heaven? Or will we simply sleep in our graves until Christhe returns?

Keep in mind that the bible is not a scientific text book and we only get the barest of details of the reality beyond this life. Paradise could well be a different place to the Heaven that Jesus later ascended to, yet both be part of the heavenly realm or Gods realm or the spiritual realm. The heavenly realm is likely more sophisticated and developed than the physical realm and could have many different areas.

As to what Jesus said to the thief on the cross, keep in mind that both of them were suffering a lot on the cross, under much physical stress, talking was not easy.
Jesus kept his message short and to the point and said what he meant and meant what he said so the thief didn't have to try to 2nd guess or ponder the words as he was under much stress too & didn't have long to live either.
Jesus spoke plainly, that day both the thief & Jesus would be in a place called 'Paradise' and this was not being a lifeless dead body.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

There are no commas in the Greek, the comma was added by the translator.

See the difference this sentence makes just by the comma.

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you today, you will be with Me in Paradise.”

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

Jesus did not ascend to heaven that day, so the first one is in line with the scriptures.

What does scripture say about what happens when one dies?

Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it” (Ecclesiastes 12:7).

What do the dead know?

“The living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun. … There is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going” (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10).
“The dead do not praise the Lord” (Psalm 115:17).

David … is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. … For David did not ascend into the heavens” (Acts 2:29, 34).


The dead will not rise until Jesus comes. Those in Christ will rise for the first resurrection to be with Christ eternally, those not, the second resurrection for condemnation.

“All who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth” (John 5:28, 29).


“Those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead … nor can they die anymore” (Luke 20:35, 36).

“Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work” (Revelation 22:12).
“The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout. … And the dead in Christ will rise. … And thus we shall always be with the Lord” (1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17).
“We shall all be changed—in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye … and the dead will be raised incorruptible. … For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality” (1 Corinthians 15:51–53).

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Hope this helps!

 

[Marumorose]

Does the bible say that Christians will go to heaven? Or will we simply sleep in our graves until Christhe returns?

Believe it or not most christians end up in HEll because we Love Jesus Christ but we do not OBEY him.
After death life goes on. Meaning we continue to live a spiritual life instead of the physical one. Think of life after death as moving from a physical earth to a spiritual earth. The spiritual earth has also mountains, rivers, streets, houses etc). We also die in that spiritual world. A soul can spend hundreds or thousands of years just wandering or moving from one place to the next before it goes to heaven! May God bless you

 

[Sorn]

There are no commas in the Greek, the comma was added by the translator.

See the difference this sentence makes just by the comma.

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you today, you will be with Me in Paradise.”

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

Jesus did not ascend to heaven that day, so the first one is in line with the scriptures.

What does scripture say about what happens when one dies?

Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it” (Ecclesiastes 12:7).

What do the dead know?

“The living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun. … There is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going” (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10).
“The dead do not praise the Lord” (Psalm 115:17).

David … is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. … For David did not ascend into the heavens” (Acts 2:29, 34).


The dead will not rise until Jesus comes. Those in Christ will rise for the first resurrection to be with Christ eternally, those not, the second resurrection for condemnation.

“All who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth” (John 5:28, 29).


“Those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead … nor can they die anymore” (Luke 20:35, 36).

“Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work” (Revelation 22:12).
“The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout. … And the dead in Christ will rise. … And thus we shall always be with the Lord” (1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17).
“We shall all be changed—in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye … and the dead will be raised incorruptible. … For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality” (1 Corinthians 15:51–53).

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Hope this helps!

I don't know if you have ever being in great physical pain or duress, i have and i can assure you under those circumstances you do not mince words. Jesus was not trying to talk with flair or impress anyone or embellish what He had to say. He did not say 'today' just so that the thief could think, 'well, duh, what other day are you telling me in'. Jesus was not stating something that was obvious to even the dumbest person. He was stating where both the thief and Jesus would be later that very day.

I don't know if you have ever being under great physical pain or duress, i have & i can assure you, you don't have the energy to ponder the true meaning of what someone says. You take what they say at face value & with the easiest interpretation. The thief was told by Jesus that that day he would be in paradise & that's how the thief would have understood it. Otherwise Jesus would have spared himself some effort and would simple have replied, 'Fear not, i will remember you!' Jesus would not have told the thief something he would misunderstand in the few hours he had left.

 

[Eishiba]

So your making it seem like Jesus and the thief didnt go to paradise that day? What exactly happened? Im having a hard time understanding this. I always thought this was a literal statement. If God and Jesus are the same then wouldnt the thief had atleast seen God that day?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I don't know if you have ever being in great physical pain or duress, i have and i can assure you under those circumstances you do not mince words. Jesus was not trying to talk with flair or impress anyone or embellish what He had to say. He did not say 'today' just so that the thief could think, 'well, duh, what other day are you telling me in'. Jesus was not stating something that was obvious to even the dumbest person. He was stating where both the thief and Jesus would be later that very day.

I don't know if you have ever being under great physical pain or duress, i have & i can assure you, you don't have the energy to ponder the true meaning of what someone says. You take what they say at face value & with the easiest interpretation. The thief was told by Jesus that that day he would be in paradise & that's how the thief would have understood it. Otherwise Jesus would have spared himself some effort and would simple have replied, 'Fear not, i will remember you!' Jesus would not have told the thief something he would misunderstand in the few hours he had left.

Jesus did not ascend to heaven that very day, He died and went to a tomb, not not sure where you’re getting the scripture that says Jesus went to heaven the day He died.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So your making it seem like Jesus and the thief didnt go to paradise that day? What exactly happened? Im having a hard time understanding this. I always thought this was a literal statement. If God and Jesus are the same then wouldnt the thief had atleast seen God that day?

We are told by clear scripture the dead go back to dust and the dead know nothing. When one is dead, their next conscious thought will be Jesus Coming and if you are in Christ you will meet Him in the air if part of the first resurrection and to condemnation (death) if part of the second resurrection. Scripture reference here Question about heaven

As I stated, the comma was added by the translator which changes the statement by Jesus.

 

[Sorn]

Jesus did not ascend to heaven that very day, He died and went to a tomb, not not sure where you’re getting the scripture that says Jesus went to heaven the day He died.

Well as per my 1st paragraph in post #8 i clearly state that we have only very minimal knowledge of the heavenly realm, so please read that paragraph.

Heaven may have many areas and scripture suggests this too with the parable of the rich man and Lazarus as well as 2 Corinthians where Paul goes to the 'third heaven' - so right there its saying Heaven is not just 1 homogeneous area.
Then there is 1 Cor 13:12 where we are told we only see i a mirror dimly, ie we get just a glimpse of the reality beyond our own.

Or 1 Peter 3:19 where we are told that in Spirit He went and preached to spirits in prison. So He went in Spirit, not in Resurrected body.
"For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring [f]us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison"

 

[Sorn]

We are told by clear scripture the dead go back to dust and the dead know nothing. When one is dead, their next conscious thought will be Jesus Coming and if you are in Christ you will meet Him in the air if part of the first resurrection and to condemnation (death) if part of the second resurrection. Scripture reference here Question about heaven

As I stated, the comma was added by the translator which changes the statement by Jesus.

If when you die you cease to exist then when God 'resurrects' you what He is actually doing is recreating a you, ie making the 1st copy of you and its that copy of you (which is not you btw) that goes on to live a blissful existence in eternity. You however, are dust and never get to live again and you don't experience Heaven,, its your copy or clone that God made that gets to live that life.

We have souls that survive our death and that only God can destroy. This way it is us that get to enter into eternal life and not a copy of us.

 

[Sorn]

We are told by clear scripture the dead go back to dust and the dead know nothing. When one is dead, their next conscious thought will be Jesus Coming and if you are in Christ you will meet Him in the air if part of the first resurrection and to condemnation (death) if part of the second resurrection. Scripture reference here Question about heaven

You scripture reference points to the book of Ecclesiastes. That book was written by Solomon, so he had much wisdom about how to live in this life and the Book of Ecclesiastes is written from that perspective.
God gave him wisdom so he can evaluate information he has and make good decisions. This applies to the knowledge of the world around him, not of the heavenly realm.
I put much more emphasis on words spoken by Jesus himself rather than by any other person in the Bible and Jesus's words are, given they were said in the context of physical suffering where every word requires effort, consistent with the fact that both He and the thief did not become lifeless corpses and nothing more that day but did go somewhere in the spiritual realm after their deaths.

 

[St_Worm2]

So your making it seem like Jesus and the thief didnt go to paradise that day? What exactly happened? Im having a hard time understanding this. I always thought this was a literal statement. If God and Jesus are the same then wouldnt the thief had at least seen God that day?

Hello again Eishiba, please refer to the article links in post #7 above as I believe that they may help eliminate some of the confusion.

That said, much of the confusion today stems from the teachings of two groups, the Jehovah's Witnesses and the 7th Day Adventists who, in contrast with the entirety of the historic Christian church for millennia, believe that our souls die when our physical bodies do (IOW, that we are not alive/do not have a conscious existence of any sort during the Intermediate State).

You've seen a pretty good listing of verses above that convince JW's/SDA's to hold to a belief about the soul/"soul sleep" during the Intermediate State that the Christian church has always believed/taught to be heretical.

There are also a number of the verses/passages listed in my first post above that, on the other hand, continue to convince the historic Christian church that we are conscious and in the Lord's presence in Heaven during the Intermediate State, even as our physical bodies lie interred in the ground here on Earth.

The good news is, what we believe in regard to this topic is not as critical as a number of other topics are because it isn't something that will affect our salvation. So, take as much time to study and ask questions about the Intermediate State as you'd like to

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - speaking (somewhat boldly here ) for the RCC, EOC, OOC, and all of the various Protestant denominations and churches, our answer to your question is "yes", the Lord meant exactly what He said
to the thief on the cross next to Him in Luke 23:43 (that they would be together in Paradise on that very day).

 

[Sorn]

We are told by clear scripture the dead go back to dust and the dead know nothing. When one is dead, their next conscious thought will be Jesus Coming and if you are in Christ you will meet Him in the air if part of the first resurrection and to condemnation (death) if part of the second resurrection. Scripture reference here Question about heaven

As I stated, the comma was added by the translator which changes the statement by Jesus.

A very interesting video that is more science based than religious based

 

[ViaCrucis]

Does the bible say that Christians will go to heaven? Or will we simply sleep in our graves until Christhe returns?

Scripture clearly teaches that in the absence of being in the body we will be present with the Lord; and that the martyrs are before God in heaven. This is the intermediate state, the time of waiting between bodily death and the resurrection. So in that sense, yes, the Bible says we will "go to heaven", but the Bible is far more interested in about our future hope of resurrection and the renewal of all things in the Age to Come than it does about the intermediate state.

-CryptoLutheran