question about bar mitzvah

[mstamper]

before i ask my questions i feel i need to give you all some background information about where i come from in regards to my walk with G-d.

when i was 6 years old my father and mother converted to Judiaism(sp?). we worshiped in several different reform temples due to moving around alot. i went to jewish day schools that were very conservative in their teachings as well as the use and pronunciation of the hebrew language.

as i was approaching my 13th birthday i began my teaching for my bar mitzvah. the cantor at the reform temple was a lady and rather stern as i remember. she was always putting me down and making me feel that what the rabbi's had been teaching me was wrong in regards to the way i spoke hebrew. the closer it got to the time for my bar mitzvah the worse the ridicule became. i finally went to my father and told him that i did not want to go through with the bar mitzvah because of the way i was being treated. he agreed to let me not have the ceremony. it was not long after that our family stopped attending temple or any sort of religious ceremonies.

i am now 41 years old. i found Jesus over 8 years ago and was water baptized then. about 4 years ago i dealt with a servere depression and underwent a week in the hospital for it and a suicidal tendency. while in there the L-rd sent an angel to me named Rose. she prayed with me and showed me that i had not fully given myself to Jesus as my L-rd and Savior. i then prayed and really asked Him into my life. things have not been the same since.

if asked i say that i am a christian first and a baptist second. that has been modified alot recently. especially in the last year. i have had a baptism in the Holy Spirit, a new water baptism, i fully beleive in the Holy Spirit and all of his manifestations. i guess you could call me a "bapti-costal".

for along time i have held the MJ's with a certain distain. (that is a story for a whole different time) My wife has an aunt whose husband is the head of a small MJ temple. i had the chance to visit with him over at his house one evening and we were able to discuss the bible in a very open and loving way. seeing his love for Jesus really allowed me to see another side to the whole MJ movement.

this has brought up several questions in me.

first - would it be proper for me to wear tallit during my personal prayer time? and / or my public prayer time?
second - is it acceptable to make my own tallit and have both jewish and christian artwork on it? can i have the tzitzit prayer in english instead of hebrew?

third and the question that has really been on my heart the last couple of days is - should i or could i finish the bar mitzvah that i never completed?

i have had several christian friends tell me that i am a "completed jew" now that i have accepted Jesus. i, a lot of times, do not feel "completed" with my bar mitzvah never having happened.

please let me know of your thoughts and opinions.

sincerely
mark stamper
a christian just trying to get closer to Him

 

[WildCelt]

Shalom and welcome chaver,

I was moved by the story of your sojurn. Regarding your questions, they appeared to me that you are seeking opinion on some soft of MJ halacha, but in truth none exists. Personally, I don't see a problem whatsoever with you using your tallit for the purpose of worship.

It appears from your story you've been turned off by people (and perhaps with good reason), but may I ask, what turned you off of the Torah? There are those of us here that believe Yeshua (Jesus) lived Torah, and expected His followers to do so as well. Believing in the Torah and believing in Yeshua HaMoshiach are not contradictory!

Now, regarding bar mitzvah...hmmm... I think I shall have to defer to my more learned colleagues here.

 

[JoshuaB]

Mark,

I will tell you a story. My mother is Israeli. Im born jewish. I was circumsized according to the law, and shortly afterward my mother converted to Christianity. I learned some basic prayers, was vaguely aware of my hertiage as a jew.

I never had a bar mitzvah because my mother had converted at that point, and of course me being a young kid, I did what she wanted me to do, was baptised etc.

Well the last time i was in israel back in feb a rabbi stopped me on the street to ask me if i had said my prayers yet today. I informed him that i was hardly jewish, told him the story I just told you. I informed him that its been years since ive said my prayers, so he asked if i wanted to. He told me I didnt have to if i didnt want to, but he would be happy to guide me through them again. Since I didnt remember all of them in hebrew, he went and got me a book to say them in english.

I went through this with the Rabbi, and he informed me that today was my bar mitzvah, and that I was now Jewish if there was any question about it before.

I have no idea how this works with Halacha, but it has certainly helped me to feel "completed"

I think I understand what you mean and though I am young, only 25, I think that maybe doing something like this could be helpful for you to identify with your roots. It did with me.

I should also mention that when this happend is when i really started to question some things I took as basic tenants of christianity, so be careful what you wish for my friend.

Shalom.

Josh

 

[Sephania]

i have had several christian friends tell me that i am a "completed jew" now that i have accepted Jesus. i, a lot of times, do not feel "completed" with my bar mitzvah never having happened.

please let me know of your thoughts and opinions.

Welcome Mark!

third and the question that has really been on my heart the last couple of days is - should i or could i finish the bar mitzvah that i never completed?

Let me answer this first. I believe that you should, I technically did when I was 44, so you aren't too late . It will make you a "son of the commandments" so just make sure you are ready to take on those commandments and agree to live by them.

first - would it be proper for me to wear tallit during my personal prayer time? and / or my public prayer time?

Your personal prayer time, no. In public, if you mean a church I would say no to that. In a synagogue during the day, yes. I would wait for public wearing thought to commence on your bar mitzvah and then after that.

second - is it acceptable to make my own tallit and have both jewish and christian artwork on it? can i have the tzitzit prayer in english instead of hebrew?

It depends on what you mean by Christian, if you mean Messianic, and you are attending a Messianic synogogue I see no problem, you may have trouble in a church or Orthodox Synogogue though. The blessing can be in both Hebrew and transliterated ( so you can read it) but not english. You may bake your own and it is desirable for you to be the one to tie the tzitzit, one thing you must remember though is to not mix wool with linen in your tallit. ( don't put wool tzitzi on a linen tallit). I have made one for my husband that has Yeshua in hebrew on it. Others I have seen with the messianic symbol. I would definately not reccomend you put a cross on there.

 

[mstamper]

Your personal prayer time, no. In public, if you mean a church I would say no to that. In a synagogue during the day, yes. I would wait for public wearing thought to commence on your bar mitzvah and then after that.

i am not sure i understand your answer here. are you saying that i SHOULD / COULD NOT wear tallit during my personal prayer time or that i SHOULD / COULD wear tallit?
i understand the law about wearing tallit during the day and esp. during my prayers at the start of my day. if i fully understand your comment... you are stating that i should wait till i have my bar mitzvah then i can wear tallit.
am i correct in understanding your statement?

thanks again for everyone's responses. they mean alot.

mark

 

[visionary]

Welcome Home Mark, May your spiritual journey continue until you are united with Yeshua, fully complete in the indwelling of Holy Spirit. Praise the Lord, in the flame that has been lighted and the walk that has brought you this far, you are almost full circle and when the two united you will be complete.

Come pull up a chair, make yourself at home and we are a friendly bunch, with a wide variety of opinions and varied backgrounds that make us very diverse and interesting lot. We hope that you will come to consider this a home away from home on the net.

Visionary

 

[Sephania]

i am not sure i understand your answer here. are you saying that i SHOULD / COULD NOT wear tallit during my personal prayer time or that i SHOULD / COULD wear tallit?
i understand the law about wearing tallit during the day and esp. during my prayers at the start of my day. if i fully understand your comment... you are stating that i should wait till i have my bar mitzvah then i can wear tallit.
am i correct in understanding your statement?

thanks again for everyone's responses. they mean alot.

mark

Sorry for the confusion, I haven't been 'all there' these past few days, my DH was in an accident early Monday morning (prayer request over at the Kotel).

OK, what I was saying is that it is perfectly fine to wear a tallit now for your prayer time at home in private. I am assuming that you know the bracha and the way to put one on? But to wear one I believe one must wear it for the reason it was designed, not just to have a 'prayer closet' but a place to hang the commanded fringes, the tzitzit from. These are the reminder of HaShem and all his commandments. If, and I say 'IF' you are not ready to take on those commandments ( say you as a Christian only believe that you have to follow the Noachide laws or the Acts 4) then there is no sense in you having a Bar Mitzvah nor wearing tallit for that is the reason for tallit, the tzitzit and to look upon them and remember HaShem and all his commandments and to do them. Otherwise its an outward 'front' sign with nothing inside to back it up.

As far as public,I meant to wear tallit in public; at your bar mitzvah and then you can in synogogue after your bar mitzvah. But not in a Church.

 

[mstamper]

Sorry for the confusion, I haven't been 'all there' these past few days, my DH was in an accident early Monday morning (prayer request over at the Kotel).

OK, what I was saying is that it is perfectly fine to wear a tallit now for your prayer time at home in private. I am assuming that you know the bracha and the way to put one on? But to wear one I believe one must wear it for the reason it was designed, not just to have a 'prayer closet' but a place to hang the commanded fringes, the tzitzit from. These are the reminder of HaShem and all his commandments. If, and I say 'IF' you are not ready to take on those commandments ( say you as a Christian only believe that you have to follow the Noachide laws or the Acts 4) then there is no sense in you having a Bar Mitzvah nor wearing tallit for that is the reason for tallit, the tzitzit and to look upon them and remember HaShem and all his commandments and to do them. Otherwise its an outward 'front' sign with nothing inside to back it up.

As far as public,I meant to wear tallit in public; at your bar mitzvah and then you can in synogogue after your bar mitzvah. But not in a Church.

thank you for the clarification. i will be praying about what the L-rd wants for me in this regard.

could you please clear up one more question.... what does DH mean? i have seen this used alot in this forum and do not have a clue as to its meaning.

thanks
mark

 

[Sephania]

DH=Darling or Dear Husband

DW=Dear Wife ----- DD Darling Daughter DS == Darling or Dear son

DIL= Daughter in Law, etc