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Dude, you're trying to apply theological concepts in retrospect. That doesn't fly. Try looking at the culture and figures of speech, eh?Nothing in the text indicates a need for a non-literal interpretation.
I won't be going to my grandfather because we'll both be dead and in the ground. I'll be going to him because we'll both be with the Lord for eternity. The same was true when David was talking about his son.
You don't even know what idea I'm presenting, yet you say there's nothing in the Bible to support it? Use your head. I'm not saying aoa is impossible, but that it's not directly or indirectly supported by Scripture.Try looking at context, eh? The whole context of Scripture, look at all the passages relating to death.
There is no biblical support for your idea, it just doesn't make any sense.
It's not inferred in the text. You can't look at all of the verses, you look at the ones by that author. It's not talking about that in context, at all. You have no argument, only claims, and then claim you're right.You are saying that David simply meant that he was going to die one day and meet his son at that point, but that it couldn't mean that they would meet in Heaven/eternal life. You are correct that the text does not directly say anything about eternal life, but using common sense and looking at ALL applicable passages we can safely say that David did mean eternal life, not simply buried in the ground.
You are taking one verse and building an ideal on it and this is a mistake. Do your own homework, all I can do for you is offer the right direction.
I'll leave you to your arrogance and your misinformed ideas. Wlecome to the ignore list.
Perhaps you have some reason NOT to want to buy into it . . . your preference . . . but I will take God's own wordThat does not mean it's proven beyond reasonable doubt. That only means it's tradition, and that there's argument based on an imbalance of God's character and subjecting God to our ideas. While God is merciful, He is also just.
Hey Mont . . . actually I would agree with Jaws . . . the afterlife was an almost non-existant concept in ancient Judaism. There is like 2 or 3 passages in the WHOLE OT that even hint at an afterlife (one in Daniel, the Witch of Endor and Samuel, and me thinks the others are prophetic IE You will not allow your holy One to undergo decay).You are saying that David simply meant that he was going to die one day and meet his son at that point, but that it couldn't mean that they would meet in Heaven/eternal life. You are correct that the text does not directly say anything about eternal life, but using common sense and looking at ALL applicable passages we can safely say that David did mean eternal life, not simply buried in the ground.
You are taking one verse and building an ideal on it and this is a mistake. Do your own homework, all I can do for you is offer the right direction.
I'll leave you to your arrogance and your misinformed ideas. Wlecome to the ignore list.
Sheol mean the grave, the pit. Death. Not necessarily hell. It's funny how you still hold the belief that David thought his son was going to heaven when that's not what the text suggests.Actually, the afterlife was a real concept. They went to Sheol, of course things changed at the Cross, but David knew he would see/meet his son again.
Yeah sheol is a real OT concept . . . but it wasn't associated with consciousness . . . those in the grave were thought to be none conscious . . . hence the Psalmist's "who can praise you from Sheol . . ."Actually, the afterlife was a real concept. They went to Sheol, of course things changed at the Cross, but David knew he would see/meet his son again.
Is that a universal thing to make small God's wrath against sin? I think not.Perhaps you have some reason NOT to want to buy into it . . . your preference . . . but I will take God's own word
James 2:12-13
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged bythe law of liberty. 13 For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.
NASU
Mercy WILL triumph over judgement . . .
I dont make light of the wrath of God at all . . . you should probably seek to ask me more questions before you post such a rhetorical question about me.Is that a universal thing to make small God's wrath against sin? I think not.
Can't say. See, I happen to take a middle of the road stance on this- that we cannot know for sure. When I hear people misrepresenting Scripture to try and provide a biblical basis for their ideas, I argue. My stance is that no statements should be made other than, "I hope God sends them to heaven, but the Bible isn't clear on it." And if statements taking a solid position are made, then I argue. I debate. I provide logic for why it's inconclusive. If we had anyone here who was trying to say that babies go to hell, I'd be going after their arguments also.I dont make light of the wrath of God at all . . . you should probably seek to ask me more questions before you post such a rhetorical question about me.
Do aborted full term fetus's go to hell jaws?
You're right; the entire concept of the afterlife is all but completely non-existent in the OT.Hey Mont . . . actually I would agree with Jaws . . . the afterlife was an almost non-existant concept in ancient Judaism. There is like 2 or 3 passages in the WHOLE OT that even hint at an afterlife (one in Daniel, the Witch of Endor and Samuel, and me thinks the others are prophetic IE You will not allow your holy One to undergo decay).
Fact is that the concept of afterlife and resurrection did NOT really take hold in Judaism until the intertestamental period with the advent of the Pharisees . . . and then the teaching became popular (rightly I might add) . . . for rememeber the Sadducees didn't believe in these things.
I think I was quite clear that the Bible was silent on the issue . . . and that what I was putting foreward were philosophical hypotheses.Can't say. See, I happen to take a middle of the road stance on this- that we cannot know for sure. When I hear people misrepresenting Scripture to try and provide a biblical basis for their ideas, I argue. My stance is that no statements should be made other than, "I hope God sends them to heaven, but the Bible isn't clear on it." And if statements taking a solid position are made, then I argue. I debate. I provide logic for why it's inconclusive. If we had anyone here who was trying to say that babies go to hell, I'd be going after their arguments also.
You're putting forward a solid stance. By my own conviction, I argue until the topic's closed.
Tell that to someone who actually cares what you think. You haven't earned the right to give me advice. I don't know you, and I haven't asked for advice. I give advice to people who ask and friends. Again, I didn't ask for your advice, and you don't know me nor have shown me that you care enough to be a friend, especially when you accuse me of arrogance publicly. You got a problem, you take it to me in person. Advice, great. Addressing a problem, great. Try following Jesus on that one. You know, take it to your brother in person. Then with 2-3 people. Then with the church.You're right; the entire concept of the afterlife is all but completely non-existent in the OT.
Although Jaws is correct on this, I find several of his responses to be rather arrogant and disrespectful in tone. Just some friendly advice, Jaws: try to watch that. Let's remember: You get further with a gun and a smile than you do with just a gun.
You never stated it directly, which probably would have helped. Clarity is so important. I probably didn't help.I think I was quite clear that the Bible was silent on the issue . . . and that what I was putting foreward were philosophical hypotheses.
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