Quarrelsome Christians

[AsPatat]

Do you think that Christians argue too much about things that are not really relevant to our salvation?

 

[Wgw]

Do you think that Christians argue too much about things that are not really relevant to our salvation?

Yes, however, I believe the doctrinal disputes one sees in GT are soteriologically substantial. I reject pietism. To quote Fr. Andrew Stephen Dammick, doctrine matters.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Do you think that Christians argue too much about things that are not really relevant to our salvation?

If it's scriptural, then yes it matters.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

[Rik Brooks]

No, I don't. I feel we should learn the entire Bible. There are questions that I'd like answered that have nothing to do with salvation but, as a scientist, just annoy the bee-jeebers out of me. I'm going to post one right now.

Rik the Seeker

 

[Albion]

If it's scriptural, then yes it matters.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

This (Timothy) is true, but it doesn't follow from this that our salvation depends on agreeing with everything. That's what AsPatat wrote in the OP--that it's "not really relevant to our salvation."

 

[Eryk]

We might as well accept the fact that people argue about everything. Members of the same religious or political tribe argue with each other. There will never be perfect agreement between any two people. Every individual disagrees with opinions they used to have and is ambivalent about some of their current opinions.

 

[Albion]

Once again, though, the OP's question was not about arguing over doctrine, etc. It was about arguing over matters that do not affect salvation.

 

[Eryk]

Once again, though, the OP's question was not about arguing over doctrine, etc. It was about arguing over matters that do not affect salvation.

Alas, we do not have a universally agreed upon definition of salvation. We do not have the same idea of what is essential and what is not. Not all Christians believe that salvation is the be-all end-all. Some want more emphasis on holiness or spirituality. For some, the central theme of the Bible is not the Gospel, it is glory: how God glorifies Himself in creation and salvation and history.

 

[Albion]

Alas, we do not have a universally agreed upon definition of salvation. We do not have the same idea of what is essential and what is not. Not all Christians believe that salvation is the be-all end-all. Some want more emphasis on holiness or spirituality. For some, the central theme of the Bible is not the Gospel, it is glory: how God glorifies Himself in creation and salvation and history.

That's fair to say, but this is what the discussion is supposed to be about--issues that affect salvation, not just anything that people can find to bicker about.

 

[AsPatat]

No, I don't. I feel we should learn the entire Bible. There are questions that I'd like answered that have nothing to do with salvation but, as a scientist, just annoy the bee-jeebers out of me. I'm going to post one right now.

Rik the Seeker

LOL I do agree with you that learning the whole bible would be good, but I don't think we have to. I also think there are times when I know too much (or want to know to much) and do to little. Curiosity killed the cat. But maybe that just means I still have a lot to learn. And maybe that is ok too.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Do you think that Christians argue too much about things that are not really relevant to our salvation?

"Christians" arguing?

what an oxymoron!

 

[98cwitr]

Are we arguing about arguing at this point? Oh the irony of it all!

 

[BobRyan]

We should always be Christians and charitable toward one another no matter the differences - but subject can still be discussed - and should not be ignored simply because not everyone has the same opinion on that particular subject. Disagree - agreeably.

 

[Steeno7]

Do you think that Christians argue too much about things that are not really relevant to our salvation?

Is salvation the only thing that is relevant to Christians?

 

[AsPatat]

Is salvation the only thing that is relevant to Christians?

No it is definitely not the only thing, but it is the first thing and it is enough for some. I am all for discussion. However, sometimes I think I talk too much. I should draw a line somewhere and would like some thoughts on where that line should be.

 

[AsPatat]

We should always be Christians and charitable toward one another no matter the differences - but subject can still be discussed - and should not be ignored simply because not everyone has the same opinion on that particular subject. Disagree - agreeably.

I completely agree with all you said. I think it is fitting that you are a Seventh-Day-Adventist. It might help me make my point if I may. I will state that I know little to none about your beliefs and don't mean to pass judgement in any way (not qualified) . I would like to add that my mom knew some Seventh Day Adventists. She liked and respected them and I respect that. That is all I know.

Now my neighbor (a good Christian lady to the best of her ability in my opinion) goes back and forth about the Sabbath with a Seventh Day Adventist lady that lives down the road. I don't really know what exactly they discuss, I stay out of it. But I know my neighbor wants the lady down the road to go to church with her, and has asked for my thoughts on how to make this happen. I forget what I said, something to the effect of "I really don't know".

The flip side of the coin, I was walking past the lady down the road. We barely know each other, talked maybe 3 or 4 times. I had recently come away from a discussion with people on whether to help or not help someone that is drinking himself to death. So I had other things on my mind and other priorities. We greeted and I asked about her house she wants to sell. That lead to the topic of her living with her children and keeping the Sabbath. She was pretty clear on her thoughts of what happens to those that do not keep the Sabbath properly. I did not want to hear it. I said we should be tolerant and made my escape as fast as possible.

To be fair, I realize she has her worries too. I also think if we know each other better, a discussion might not have been out of place. She just picked the wrong person, place and time in my opinion. I am sure she had her reasons and I am quite OK. I hope she is too.

As you can tell, I am quite new here, talking to people I know nothing about. So I asked this question to get a better look at myself. When I was young I was ready to defend my beliefs with all I have. Now I think it should be reigned in, and I should be more careful what I say and to whom. Specially in discussions with fellow Christians, as you said, we should be charitable to one another.

I hope no-one takes this to whether how we keep the Sabbath is necessary for our own salvation. Now that I am re-thinking it all, I wonder if we can decide for ourselves what we really need to be saved, and let God decide for others. Can we only discuss things when we are sure we can do it in a loving way? Should we ever speak up even thought the other person might be offended?

 

[AsPatat]

Are we arguing about arguing at this point? Oh the irony of it all!

I will grant you that it seems pretty silly, but I would like to think that we are discussing rather than arguing.

 

[Steeno7]

No it is definitely not the only thing, but it is the first thing and it is enough for some. I am all for discussion. However, sometimes I think I talk too much. I should draw a line somewhere and would like some thoughts on where that line should be.

The line should be drawn where the conversation moves from the discussion of ideas, to attacking the character of the other. And sometimes that line is crossed very early in a conversation...like in the first response of a person to what another has said.

 

[BobRyan]

I completely agree with all you said. I think it is fitting that you are a Seventh-Day-Adventist. It might help me make my point if I may. I will state that I know little to none about your beliefs and don't mean to pass judgement in any way (not qualified) .

Thanks. Also here is a thread I started on that subject in general - in the SDA discussion board area
Yesterday at 9:48 AM #1
And the traditional SDA comment area - Yesterday at 8:03 PM #1

They both point to the same discussion thread.

I would like to add that my mom knew some Seventh Day Adventists. She liked and respected them and I respect that. That is all I know.

Now my neighbor (a good Christian lady to the best of her ability in my opinion) goes back and forth about the Sabbath with a Seventh Day Adventist lady that lives down the road. I don't really know what exactly they discuss, I stay out of it. But I know my neighbor wants the lady down the road to go to church with her, and has asked for my thoughts on how to make this happen. I forget what I said, something to the effect of "I really don't know".

Sometimes people will go for something like "I will go to your church one week if you will attend my church with me one week". I know I have done that. But everyone has free will - so the lady in question may not go for it.

The flip side of the coin, I was walking past the lady down the road. We barely know each other, talked maybe 3 or 4 times. I had recently come away from a discussion with people on whether to help or not help someone that is drinking himself to death. So I had other things on my mind and other priorities. We greeted and I asked about her house she wants to sell. That lead to the topic of her living with her children and keeping the Sabbath. She was pretty clear on her thoughts of what happens to those that do not keep the Sabbath properly. I did not want to hear it. I said we should be tolerant and made my escape as fast as possible.

The 4th commandment is one of the Ten Commandments. So is the command not to bow down to - or serve entities represented by graven images. James 2 says to break one is to break them all. And James 4 says that "to him that knows to do right and does it not - to him it is sin". Each person is accountable for the light they have and the choices that they make.

However it is not the SDA doctrinal position that all those who do not keep Sabbath are lost, nor does the SDA church teach that all who use images in church/worship are lost.

As you can tell, I am quite new here, talking to people I know nothing about. So I asked this question to get a better look at myself. When I was young I was ready to defend my beliefs with all I have. Now I think it should be reigned in, and I should be more careful what I say and to whom. Specially in discussions with fellow Christians, as you said, we should be charitable to one another.

I agree with discussing Bible topics even when we differ. I do not consider that to be uncaring or bad in any way. Paul loved to discuss Bible topics with Jews who were not Christian.

Can we only discuss things when we are sure we can do it in a loving way? Should we ever speak up even thought the other person might be offended?

Being offended is usually a personal choice. One I try not to go for at all costs. To make real mayonnaise you have to break a few eggs. Paul said that for some - the Gospel is an offense. But that does not mean we should not proclaim the Good News of the Gospel to those who do not have-it or accept-it. I don't think we should hound them on that - but we should be willing to share even though it may cost us a friend.

All good points in your post. Thanks for posting that!

in Christ,

Bob

 

[RDKirk]

We should always be Christians and charitable toward one another no matter the differences - but subject can still be discussed - and should not be ignored simply because not everyone has the same opinion on that particular subject. Disagree - agreeably.

Yes.

Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. -- Romans 14

There are disputable matters and there are undisputable matters. Paul gives, as example, the issue of eating or not eating meat as a matter upon which Christians might have a dispute.