Put your gun AWAY!

[PreachersWife2004]

Will be interesting to see whether this makes national news.

Many details unknown as state police investigate fatal Lansing Township police shooting | MLive.com

One Dead After Officer Involved Shooting In Lansing Twp. - WLNS TV 6 Lansing - Jackson | Your Local News Leader

Official: Man killed by police had gun

One dead after shooting involving Lansing Twp. officer

In one article (the last one, Free Press) the suspect who was shot was described as "non African-American". I believe he was hispanic.

This is my hometown. I know a lot of these guys.

Listen, people, if you have a gun and you get pulled over...don't hold it up in the air! Better yet - don't have it out while you're driving. Don't be an idiot.

 

[dgiharris]

The last “officer involved shooting” in Lansing Township was nearly 20 years ago, Hoffman said.

See, statements like this make me feel better as a citizen about police use of force. Obviously major cities aren't going to have a stat like this.

As far as guns are concerned in Michigan

Michigan is a traditional open carry state. Open carry is more common in rural areas. You may NOT open carry in a car without a permit. However, Michigan recognizes the resident permits of all 50 states.

I had a friend that used to carry a gun inside the car. He had a permit and when pulled over first thing he would tell the officer is that he has a permit and a gun in the car in accordance with the permit.

When a cop sees a gun in a car they instantly go into fight mode, as they should. I'm not sure, but I think Getting shot at a traffic stop is the #1 way cops get killed.

 

[keith99]

See, statements like this make me feel better as a citizen about police use of force. Obviously major cities aren't going to have a stat like this.

As far as guns are concerned in Michigan



I had a friend that used to carry a gun inside the car. He had a permit and when pulled over first thing he would tell the officer is that he has a permit and a gun in the car in accordance with the permit.

When a cop sees a gun in a car they instantly go into fight mode, as they should. I'm not sure, but I think Getting shot at a traffic stop is the #1 way cops get killed.

I was on a trip with a friend who was working to become a police officer. He had a gun and first thing he did was let the officers know and show ID that established he was licensed to carry. This 40 years ago.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

UPDATE

Now, there's a difference between letting an officer know you have a gun and holding it up in the air.

The fact that he was holding it up leads me to believe he had it out in the car. Why?

Dgi, this was Lansing Township, which is sort of a division of the Lansing PD. Lansing is the capital city of Michigan. It's not Detroit or Chicago, but it's not a "minor" city either.

 

[dgiharris]

UPDATE

Now, there's a difference between letting an officer know you have a gun and holding it up in the air.

The fact that he was holding it up leads me to believe he had it out in the car. Why?

Dgi, this was Lansing Township, which is sort of a division of the Lansing PD. Lansing is the capital city of Michigan. It's not Detroit or Chicago, but it's not a "minor" city either.

As I read it, they are talking about Lansing Township

The Charter Township of Lansing, is a charter township of Ingham County in the U.S. state of Michigan. As of the 2010 census, it had a population of 8,126.

that is a small city, not even a city, a town...

I would be really surprised if the city of Lansing which has a population of 113,000 people has gone 20 years without police using their guns.

 

[SuperCloud]

Looks to have been a young dude--from the 3rd article. Probably a young Latino.

I think the death was unnecessary and the cop over-reacted. But I used to sleep with my M-16 with me in my sleeping bag in the Corp and I was around a lot of firearms and people with firearms. So, a gun in sight does not necessarily make me go running for cover or feel I have to shoot someone.

I've never been hunting, but honestly, going hunting worries me more than seeing some dude on an urban street legally, open carry or put a shotgun in the backseat or trunk of his car. Why? Because some white dude can snipe me from long range out in the woods calling me a deer.

Actually, a sniper is pretty scary, and you can't even see them or their "gun."

Look... I was trained in some basics of CQB. So, what I learned is you don't want to silhouette yourself in spaces like a doorway or window. Either stay to the side of them or go through them. But this relates to a vehicle in a sense too. Like the doorway, if you are trapped within a car, I don't need to be a good pistol marksman to cap off multiple rounds in that visually boxed space to hit you. I'm at an advantage when what is framing me is all of planet earth and what is framing you is a doorway or a car you're in.

I'm more worried if I'm the one in the car and I see you outside the car approaching me with a firearm.

All that said....

You should not hold your firearm up when you are stopped by police. When the cop approaches the door you let him know you have a firearm on you or in your car.

A long, long time ago I used to illegally carry and I drove with a loaded 9mm Glock, round chambered, laying across my lap. Didn't matter if I pulled up beside cop cars at red lights or swerved from fire trucks and ambulances as I had my music blaring and drinking Jack Daniels. You ran up on me to carjack me I was shooting through my car door.

But I was younger then. Today I try to be much more law abiding.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

As I read it, they are talking about Lansing Township

that is a small city, not even a city, a town...

I would be really surprised if the city of Lansing which has a population of 113,000 people has gone 20 years without police using their guns.

For all intents and purposes, Lansing Township is just Lansing, with some different borders. LPD still patrols there, as well.

I think THIS was the last "big" Lansing PD shooting. Don't think it made too many national news markets.

 

[Belk]

Was he pointing the gun at someone or just holding it up showing them he had a weapon?

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Was he pointing the gun at someone or just holding it up showing them he had a weapon?

No one really knows. His buddy in the car is on record as saying he was just holding it up to show the cop "hey, look, it's a gun" sorta. He was also quoted as saying that the cop told the guy TWICE to put the gun down.

I'm wondering if they have dash cam surveillance. I hope they do.

 

[Supreme]

British policing looks so stupidly easy in comparison to American policing. In America, you're never sure if the person is about to pull out a gun on you, or if you're going to have to kill a young man and have sleepless nights for years because of that decision. In Britain, you're far more likely to be convincing a drunk to go home or investigating a stolen car.

 

[Belk]

No one really knows. His buddy in the car is on record as saying he was just holding it up to show the cop "hey, look, it's a gun" sorta. He was also quoted as saying that the cop told the guy TWICE to put the gun down.

I'm wondering if they have dash cam surveillance. I hope they do.

Hopefully. The only time I have had an interaction with police while I was carrying I immediately let the policeman know I was carrying concealed by verbally informing him. Pulling it out and showing him seemed a quick way to take a trip to the hospital.

 

[NannaNae]

Will be interesting to see whether this makes national news.

Many details unknown as state police investigate fatal Lansing Township police shooting | MLive.com

One Dead After Officer Involved Shooting In Lansing Twp. - WLNS TV 6 Lansing - Jackson | Your Local News Leader

Official: Man killed by police had gun

One dead after shooting involving Lansing Twp. officer

In one article (the last one, Free Press) the suspect who was shot was described as "non African-American". I believe he was hispanic.

This is my hometown. I know a lot of these guys.

Listen, people, if you have a gun and you get pulled over...don't hold it up in the air! Better yet - don't have it out while you're driving. Don't be an idiot.

especially when some gang banging groups have their their new member shoot a cop. cops have rights to defend themselves , just like we do .

 

[Belk]

especially when some gang banging groups have their their new member shoot a cop. cops have rights to defend themselves , just like we do .

Sounds like a wives tale. Shooting a cop would be a great way to draw a lot of law enforcement attention. Something most gangs are eager to avoid.

 

[NannaNae]

rotf!!

 

[SuperCloud]

British policing looks so stupidly easy in comparison to American policing. In America, you're never sure if the person is about to pull out a gun on you, or if you're going to have to kill a young man and have sleepless nights for years because of that decision. In Britain, you're far more likely to be convincing a drunk to go home or investigating a stolen car.

There is a blade culture in the UK though. Especially in Scotland and London so far as I can glean from video documentaries or news stories I've seen in the past.

A knife is a dangerous weapon. Albeit, I asked the overseeing doctor as a group of them took out a bullet that was left in my back, which is worse a bullet or knife injury and he responded that definitely bullet injuries are (maybe because they travel carving up paths through the body--I dunno). But at close range, a bit over arms length, a knife holding person beats the man standing in front of him with a pistol holstered. Plus, the knife is silent and doesn't have to be reloaded. Sentry removal can make use of the knife in warfare, but you have to lay over the body as it shakes and withers on the ground. Part of "noise discipline" especially at night where listening posts are set up.

I would not sleep on the knife though. Very dangerous weapon, especially in the hand of a very skilled person with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2YDyXM6gCU

 

[Supreme]

There is a blade culture in the UK though. Especially in Scotland and London so far as I can glean from video documentaries or news stories I've seen in the past.

A knife is a dangerous weapon. Albeit, I asked the overseeing doctor as a group of them took out a bullet that was left in my back, which is worse a bullet or knife injury and he responded that definitely bullet injuries are (maybe because they travel carving up paths through the body--I dunno). But at close range, a bit over arms length, a knife holding person beats the man standing in front of him with a pistol holstered. Plus, the knife is silent and doesn't have to be reloaded. Sentry removal can make use of the knife in warfare, but you have to lay over the body as it shakes and withers on the ground. Part of "noise discipline" especially at night where listening posts are set up.

I would not sleep on the knife though. Very dangerous weapon, especially in the hand of a very skilled person with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2YDyXM6gCU

Knives *are* dangerous. But we've had so few knife attacks against police, and police are generally well prepared to deal with a knife wielding suspect in a non-fatal way (ie with knife vests, training in disarmament, CS spray, their ASP baton and some carry tasers now), so it's not like some massive life change on a police officer where they could take away somebody's life.

Plus, knives are just so much less scary than guns.

 

[dgiharris]

Sounds like a wives tale. Shooting a cop would be a great way to draw a lot of law enforcement attention. Something most gangs are eager to avoid.

I grew up in El Paso, Tx. At the time I grew up, El Paso had more gangs per capita than any place in the US to include LA.

The Mexican Cartel is big in El Paso, so El Paso gangs are no joke, they are the real deal.

We had 8 - 11 gangs in my neighborhood (defined as 5 mile area), 3 of them were major (i.e. they directly worked for the Cartel and had done killings) and national (had chapters in other cities)

Joining a "major" gang is not something you do overnight. First you got to be down and well known by the gang. That takes years. During this time you have earned your rep already doing stuff with them. Joining then just a formality and you are jumped in, that is, 5 to 10 gang members beat the hell out of you and you fight back.

It is rare for your initiation to involve killing someone. That initiation was in a movie "New Jack City" in the 80s and it quickly spread as an old wives tale and urban legend.

The only time I've heard of a murder being part of an initiation is if a gang is at war with another gang and wars with other gangs aren't as common as you'd think. THere is beef-n which is like just having a general "I don't like you" status with other gangs, then there is war which is a whole other level and rare since it involves lots of death and police attention and is bad for business.

Contrary to popular belief, gangs aren't rabid dogs that fight each other to the death whenever they see one another. For the most part, if you aren't "in the game" a gang will not bother you.

 

[SuperCloud]

Sounds like a wives tale. Shooting a cop would be a great way to draw a lot of law enforcement attention. Something most gangs are eager to avoid.

Yeah. You mean urban legend though. That would require a lot of cops shot every year in the USA. Plus, you kill a cop, and everyone knows the cops are coming down relentlessly on everyone believed to have any association with the shooter. They will be relentless in their hunt for you.

You can get away with some of that in Brazil. Unless you shoot and kill a member of BOPE in Rio de Janeiro. Something even the most hardened and savage Rio gang members/killers are loathed to do. Because BOPE will hunt (and likely kill) you even more relentlessly than U.S. cops searching for a cop killer.

All that aside from BOPE arguably being the best urban fighters on earth (yes, better than even U.S. Navy SEALs in urban combat--and with far less resources and money pumped into training a SEAL team).

Not to say cops don't get shot. They have even in Milwaukee. Shot in the face, eye lost, left with nerve damage and traumatic brain injury--in one incident.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Sounds like a wives tale. Shooting a cop would be a great way to draw a lot of law enforcement attention. Something most gangs are eager to avoid.

Afraid not...

There was a group a couple years ago in Phoenix that would take new members on a drive around the greater Phoenix area at night with their brights on. When an oncoming driver would flash their brights at them (a common courtesy letting other drivers know their brights are on) the gang members would turn around and follow that car until they were along side them and open fire.

 

[JustMeSee]

Will be interesting to see whether this makes national news.

Many details unknown as state police investigate fatal Lansing Township police shooting | MLive.com

One Dead After Officer Involved Shooting In Lansing Twp. - WLNS TV 6 Lansing - Jackson | Your Local News Leader

Official: Man killed by police had gun

One dead after shooting involving Lansing Twp. officer

In one article (the last one, Free Press) the suspect who was shot was described as "non African-American". I believe he was hispanic.

This is my hometown. I know a lot of these guys.

Listen, people, if you have a gun and you get pulled over...don't hold it up in the air! Better yet - don't have it out while you're driving. Don't be an idiot.

Perhaps, firearm training is not enough.
Drivers license training for appropriate way of conducting oneself at traffic stops?