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Purgatory
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I've heard people say that Purgatory is more painful that the worst pain on Earth. From what they say, it seems to go far beyond being sorrowful over a longing for God.alucardr said:
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Lifesaver
Fides et Ratio
By justice, every transgression deserves a punishment.
In Purgatory we receive the temporal punishment for those sins which had not been forgiven (venial) or whose penance hadn't been done.
And the individual who is punished always suffers. Still, there is also a great joy over the things to come after the period of purification is over.
In Purgatory we receive the temporal punishment for those sins which had not been forgiven (venial) or whose penance hadn't been done.
And the individual who is punished always suffers. Still, there is also a great joy over the things to come after the period of purification is over.
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Alright, but a person who attends Mass on a regular basis and tries to live sin free will have a minimal amount of venial sins that haven't been forgiven. Can there really be that much pain for the punishment of several venial sins?Lifesaver said:
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All venial sins are gone when you attened Mass in a state of grace. Purgatory I believe would cover more of penances that had not yet been taken care of.
(This is just my thoughts, not official teaching).
(This is just my thoughts, not official teaching).
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geocajun
Priest of the holy smackrament
No one knows for certain if is painful. Many have attempted to describe it, but nothing has been officially declared by the Church about how it 'feels'.
Purgatory is the remediation of temporal punishment due to sin. This is for any sins which have been confessed, and venial sins which have not been confessed.
Sacramental Confession absolves one for the sin, however it only partially remits the temporal punishment for the sins which were absolved.
Sort of like when a child breaks a rule at home, and is forgiven(absolved), but still placed on restriction(temporal punishment).
It does make sense that there would be some pain in purgatory, but those in purgatory also experience the joy of being in the presence of God.
I think Thomas Aquinas described purgatory as being at the same time a painful experience, and a great joy.
Purgatory is the remediation of temporal punishment due to sin. This is for any sins which have been confessed, and venial sins which have not been confessed.
Sacramental Confession absolves one for the sin, however it only partially remits the temporal punishment for the sins which were absolved.
Sort of like when a child breaks a rule at home, and is forgiven(absolved), but still placed on restriction(temporal punishment).
It does make sense that there would be some pain in purgatory, but those in purgatory also experience the joy of being in the presence of God.
I think Thomas Aquinas described purgatory as being at the same time a painful experience, and a great joy.
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1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.
1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:
As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.
1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin." From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God. The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead.
1472 To understand this doctrine and practice of the Church, it is necessary to understand that sin has a double consequence. Grave sin deprives us of communion with God and therefore makes us incapable of eternal life, the privation of which is called the "eternal punishment" of sin. On the other hand every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in the state called Purgatory. This purification frees one from what is called the "temporal punishment" of sin. These two punishments must not be conceived of as a kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, but as following from the very nature of sin. A conversion which proceeds from a fervent charity can attain the complete purification of the sinner in such a way that no punishment would remain.
1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:
As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.
1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin." From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God. The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead.
1472 To understand this doctrine and practice of the Church, it is necessary to understand that sin has a double consequence. Grave sin deprives us of communion with God and therefore makes us incapable of eternal life, the privation of which is called the "eternal punishment" of sin. On the other hand every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in the state called Purgatory. This purification frees one from what is called the "temporal punishment" of sin. These two punishments must not be conceived of as a kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, but as following from the very nature of sin. A conversion which proceeds from a fervent charity can attain the complete purification of the sinner in such a way that no punishment would remain.
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Knee V
It's phonetic.
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Notice that the catechism has very little to say about purgatory. There is a lot of speculation that we can do, but we must look at what is actually taught, which is not a lot.
One is that the debt that is required for sin is not the same as temporal punishment. Christ paid the debt for sin. There is nothing more that is required, nor that CAN be required for that debt. It has been paid in full. But beyond the debt/punishment for our sins, there are other consequences for our sins. Those are the temporal punishments. That name can be misleading. It does not mean that we are being "punished for our sins". But we still suffer the consequences. Let's say I kill someone. Then I am converted, baptized, etc. That sin is forgiven in Christ. But that person is still dead. I still owe a debt to society. I still must suffer the just judicial penalty for my crime. That is a "temporal punishment". Will I be in hell? NO. Will I still suffer for it here and now. Yes indeed!
Here's another way to look at it. Throughout our lives as christians, one of our goals is to be transformed into the image of Christ. We are dying to our old selves and becoming more like Christ. Sometimes we fail at certain areas and give into sin. When that happens, God chastens us. And He does that because He loves us. When He does that, it most often hurts. But that's what makes chastening work. We suffer, but that causes us to flee from our sins and become more Christ-like. The longer we live, ideally, the more we die to sin. But that process is not always complete when we die. We still have some degree of sinfulness. If we were to be in God's presence in that state, then there would be sin in Heaven. In order for there to not be sin in Heaven, God must complete the process that had begun on earth. And just as it is painful here and now, so it is when we die. It's kind of like God's final loving spanking to rid us of all of our sinfulness. It's painful because that sinfulness is part of what we are. Even though we want to get rid of a scab, it still hurts to peel it off. But it must be done. So it is with our sinfulness.
One is that the debt that is required for sin is not the same as temporal punishment. Christ paid the debt for sin. There is nothing more that is required, nor that CAN be required for that debt. It has been paid in full. But beyond the debt/punishment for our sins, there are other consequences for our sins. Those are the temporal punishments. That name can be misleading. It does not mean that we are being "punished for our sins". But we still suffer the consequences. Let's say I kill someone. Then I am converted, baptized, etc. That sin is forgiven in Christ. But that person is still dead. I still owe a debt to society. I still must suffer the just judicial penalty for my crime. That is a "temporal punishment". Will I be in hell? NO. Will I still suffer for it here and now. Yes indeed!
Here's another way to look at it. Throughout our lives as christians, one of our goals is to be transformed into the image of Christ. We are dying to our old selves and becoming more like Christ. Sometimes we fail at certain areas and give into sin. When that happens, God chastens us. And He does that because He loves us. When He does that, it most often hurts. But that's what makes chastening work. We suffer, but that causes us to flee from our sins and become more Christ-like. The longer we live, ideally, the more we die to sin. But that process is not always complete when we die. We still have some degree of sinfulness. If we were to be in God's presence in that state, then there would be sin in Heaven. In order for there to not be sin in Heaven, God must complete the process that had begun on earth. And just as it is painful here and now, so it is when we die. It's kind of like God's final loving spanking to rid us of all of our sinfulness. It's painful because that sinfulness is part of what we are. Even though we want to get rid of a scab, it still hurts to peel it off. But it must be done. So it is with our sinfulness.
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