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Punctuated Equilibrium

ragarth

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So glad you mentioned cheetahs

Great prediction, by the way. I think it's reps

Yes, I figured they would be very apt for the question. Cheetahs apparently suffered a terrible catastrophy around 10,000 years ago that severely bottlenecked their genetic diversity. They actually serve multiple purposes in this context: First they show a proven genetic history beyond 6,000 years, they show that there was no 'uniform ratio' of 'clean' and 'unclean' animals off the ark, and they prove that God didn't 'accelerate' the development of genetic diversity within populations, unless God just doesn't like cheetahs.
 
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ragarth

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Funny how quiet it has gone in here now that evidence is being presented.

I wouldn't necessarily say it's that. Human attention is a flighty thing, people may have just grown bored, or found something else that interests them more.
 
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NailsII

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I wouldn't necessarily say it's that. Human attention is a flighty thing, people may have just grown bored, or found something else that interests them more.
In many instances I may agree with you, but some people have a track record for this sort of behaviour.
 
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Naraoia

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Let's not forget it's not easy when you're alone against a crowd. I left the OriginsTalk mailing list essentially because I felt completely alone and couldn't find the strength to cope with all the huge posts (some way outside my field) addressed to me all on my own.

(Just reminding y'all that people may quit threads for other reasons than inability to face defeat.)
 
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NailsII

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You are of course correct, but RB has a history of posting and running - I often suspect he doesn't read many replies.
I seem to remember you have had a previous issue with this particular poster....
 
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Naraoia

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You are of course correct, but RB has a history of posting and running - I often suspect he doesn't read many replies.
I seem to remember you have had a previous issue with this particular poster....
When I challenged him he eventually replied. Multiple times. They weren't the greatest replies, and I don't think he really understands the issues at hand (or, as you suggest, he may simply ignore most of a post), but at least he tried.
 
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RobertByers

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Wouldn't that be 7:2, bro?Note the chapter and verse as well --- coincidental?

Cute.
Wait a minute. It was 2 of unclean and 14 of clean. So 1:7. My math is bad but I got . I hope.
By the way 1 couple of the clean were sacrified after the flood.
yet the bible says clearly there was a ratio advantage. so was this the ratio before the flood. or 50/50 or what.
Since the fossil record is so dino/reptilish below the k-t line then we can conclude it was a unclean dominance before the flood and the opposite after for God's reasons.
You could say the bible predicted the fossil record results as a option.
 
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RobertByers

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I'm not ignorant. A different opinion.

These claimed ages you listed are errors. They are just different stages or areas caught up in the single flood year.
Triassic is not above the line. anyways the line is the fauna line. K-t just fits and is admitted as important. they have too.
The k-t line is a beautiful piece of evidence of the reality of the biblical flood.
couldn't ask for more. Well more is good too.
 
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RobertByers

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Yes the strata is very different where accurately separated. The k-t line is relevant only for the fauna difference. What the k-t line is can be mistaken where the fauna is not in evidence. Its the fauna and the k-t line fits.

Diversity in genetics is a assumption of evolution and not creationism.
Genetics just goes hand in hand with body change. the body can change instantly like with placentals into marsupials.

Keep your eye on assumptions.
 
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RobertByers

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Not how it worked.
It was a completly unclean world before the flood. I don't want to find the clean mammels. Its impossible. (save little ones).
There could not be mingling of sheep or giraffs with t-rex.
Therefore whatever mammals/clean creatures looked liked it must still of been in obscure and limited areas on earth. in fact probably they lived close to the people. The people must of been more separated from the unclean world by some geography means.
Indeed after the flood god had to put the fear of man into creatures. This it seems because there was no issue before.
Segregation must of been going on.
 
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AV1611VET

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Since the fossil record is so dino/reptilish below the k-t line then we can conclude it was a unclean dominance before the flood and the opposite after for God's reasons.
You could say the bible predicted the fossil record results as a option.
Good point, bro --- I never looked at it that way ---
 
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ragarth

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If the actual geologic strata are formed by the flood, then the flood could not have produced geologic strata after the k/t line, so if we see geologic strata after the k/t line then it would have to be produced by a mechanism that existed both before and after the creation of the k/t line, which the flood did not. I can verify this because my house is not floating atop 5 miles of water.

So I ask, what are the differences in the geologic strata before and after the flood? I'm sorry, but being possessed of a scientific mind, I do need proof or reasoning to back up claims.

In terms of genetic diversity, you're ignoring a whole mass of proof outside of evolution for genetic diversification of a species over time, simply because genetic diversification is related to evolution. Genetic diversity can be geographically mapped, and this has been correlated with environmental changes that would have caused population fluctuations, so there is a backing of proof for genetic diversification of a species over time. Note that genetic diversification is not speciation, it's the accrual of mutations over time that create diversity within a species, not to split a species.
 
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NailsII

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Not how it worked.
How convenient.


It was a completly unclean world before the flood. I don't want to find the clean mammels. Its impossible. (save little ones).
Not completely, but by your definition of clean it still is an unclean world.

There could not be mingling of sheep or giraffs with t-rex.
Really?


Genesis 6:13
13 So God said to Noah, "I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth.
No mention of evil dinos then.

Genesis 6:19-21

No mention of exclusions, specifically meat-eating dinosaurs there either.

Therefore whatever mammals/clean creatures looked liked it must still of been in obscure and limited areas on earth. in fact probably they lived close to the people.
So why do we find their remains all over the planet - on every continent, even the middle east and Northern Africa?

The people must of been more separated from the unclean world by some geography means.
Seperated by time in fact, approx. 60 million years of it.
Indeed after the flood god had to put the fear of man into creatures. This it seems because there was no issue before.
Segregation must of been going on.
Look around you, watch a few nature programmes. Do lions look scared of humans?
Crocodiles?
Sharks?
Bacteria?
And I suppose there was no rain either - as it was not written in your great book either.
Tell me, did any biblical characters defacate, because I can't find any mention of that either. And if it's not in the book, it didn't happen, right?

Good point, bro --- I never looked at it that way ---
But you still need to back up your assertion that God didn't save any dinosaurs.

The book says save all the animals - no exceptions.
So after 'the flood' the world would be populated by the same animals, but in different starting ratios.
Is that supported by the evidence?

Genesis 7
It's not even supported by the bible....
 
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Naraoia

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These claimed ages you listed are errors. They are just different stages or areas caught up in the single flood year.
Nails, see what I'm talking about? And it didn't really matter when I told him that an extinction event that's clearly not the K/T is recorded all over the globe.

By the way, Robert, if you are reading this.

I don't think this has occurred to me before:

If all the other extinctions are just the same flood in different areas (I think that was your contention back in the other thread), then the creatures that came after them must belong to the clean world of today, right?

So, is Lystrosaurus a clean animal? Proterosuchus? Procolophon?

These represent some of the typical land vertebrates just above the Permo-Triassic boundary. The most mammal-like thing you find in the same layers is probably a thrinaxodontid cynodont like this. Doesn't look like a clean, modern fauna to me.
 
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AV1611VET

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But you still need to back up your assertion that God didn't save any dinosaurs.
The book says save all the animals - no exceptions.
That is correct --- but the new climate would not support the non-avian dinosaurs, and they eventually became extinct.

The non-avian dinosaurs were evidently adept at living under uni-tropical conditions --- which, of course, changed after the Flood.

Only life that could adapt to the new climate would continue.
 
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