Psalms 22

[SH89]

Hello,


I have a quick question: from the context of psalms 22 itself, how do we know that it's messianic?

I do know that none of the stuff in psalms 22 happened to David, and that the gospels quote from psalms 22; however, how do we know that it's messianic from the context itself?

 

[justified]

Whatever do you mean? Everything in Ps. 22 is similar to the rest of Psalms: poetic imagery depicting ones hardships. Psalms are not histories, they are poetry and they use exaggeration, metaphor, etc quite often.

Honestly, most messianic psalms were not written with that "intent." In fact, they were realised later (by the gospel writers) to typify what they had experienced, and therefore were considered to be prophecy.

 

[tapero]

Hi.

Are you saying that the Psalms that I think are about Jesus, aren't about Jesus? Not that you said that, but I'm just curious.

I'm just asking. Not challenging at all. God Bless, Tapero

 

[SH89]

Whatever do you mean? Everything in Ps. 22 is similar to the rest of Psalms: poetic imagery depicting ones hardships. Psalms are not histories, they are poetry and they use exaggeration, metaphor, etc quite often.

Honestly, most messianic psalms were not written with that "intent." In fact, they were realised later (by the gospel writers) to typify what they had experienced, and therefore were considered to be prophecy.

John quotes psalms 22:18 in john 19:24 to show a fulfillment of "They divided my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing."

Here is the passage from the gospel of John: "Let's not tear it," they said to one another. "Let's decide by lot who will get it."
This happened that the scripture might be fulfilled which said,
"They divided my garments among them
and cast lots for my clothing."[a] So this is what the soldiers did.(john 19:24)

Question: Was John trying to use psalms 22:18 as a literal prophecy(like isaiah 7:14 and micah 5:2) or was he trying to show how Jesus' garment being divided was like the incident in psalms 22.

Matthew does the same with hosea 11:1 here: Matthew 2:15
where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: "Out of Egypt I called my son."

So was John using psalms as a literal messianic prophecy(like isaiah 7:14), or was he showing how one passage from the OT relates to Jesus' situation? Is psalms 22 really about the suffering of the messiah?

Hi.

Are you saying that the Psalms that I think are about Jesus, aren't about Jesus? Not that you said that, but I'm just curious.

I'm just asking. Not challenging at all. God Bless, Tapero

I have always believed that psalms 22 was/is messianic and that it depicted the suffering of the messiah. However, lately I have been doubting if psalms 22 is about the messiah. From the context of psalms 22, how can we determine if it's messianic?

Also, Isaiah 53 is clearly messianic. Isaiah 53 clearly prophecies the suffering and death that the messiah would go through. On the other hand, Psalms 22, by context alone, doesn't really seem messianic.

 

[Theophorus]

The fact that Christ quoted it.

Plus the description, in the LXX (and the dead sea scrolls) it reads that they had pierced my hands and feet.

but look at the last part

27All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
28For the kingdom is the LORD's: and he is the governor among the nations.
29All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
30A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
31They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.


but it is more clear in the LXX


30 And my seed shall serve Him. The generation that cometh shall be told of the Lord, and they shall proclaim His righteousness to a people that shall be born, which the Lord has made.



plus, here is vs 20 in the KJV

Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.


the same verse in the LXX


Deliver my soul from the sword; my only begotten one from the power of the dog.


It is a reference to Christ.

 

[SH89]

The fact that Christ quoted it.

Plus the description, in the LXX (and the dead sea scrolls) it reads that they had pierced my hands and feet.

but look at the last part

27All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
28For the kingdom is the LORD's: and he is the governor among the nations.
29All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
30A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
31They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.


but it is more clear in the LXX


30 And my seed shall serve Him. The generation that cometh shall be told of the Lord, and they shall proclaim His righteousness to a people that shall be born, which the Lord has made.



plus, here is vs 20 in the KJV

Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.


the same verse in the LXX


Deliver my soul from the sword; my only begotten one from the power of the dog.


It is a reference to Christ.

Thanks a lot



The LXX refers to the greek version of the old testament, correct? Where do you get a copy, or can you find it online?

 

[Dmckay]

Let's see, written by David 1,000 years before the birth of Christ, 800 years before the Romans began the practice of crucifixion. Yet the passage describes in great detail exactly what someone suffering from the effects of crucifixion would experience. Not only that, but he describes specific events in this Psalm which pertained only to the coming Messiah, down to the taunts hurled at Jesus, and many of His own words.

Since, as you already stated, this never happened to David, that it is referred to by the gospel writers as speaking of Jesus, what classification of Psalm would you think would apply? It's not impreccatory, didactic, a Psalm of ascent or praise. Since it blends well with the teaching of Isaiah about the treatment of the Messiah that would constitute part of the context that supports it being a messianic Psalm.

 

[Dmckay]

The LXX is a Greek translation commissioned for the library at Alexandria which was translated by 70 Jewish scholars.

You can find a downloadable version of the LXX at this site:
http://septuagint-interlinear-greek-bible.com/downbook.htm

 

[SH89]

The LXX is a Greek translation commissioned for the library at Alexandria which was translated by 70 Jewish scholars.

You can find a downloadable version of the LXX at this site:
http://septuagint-interlinear-greek-bible.com/downbook.htm

Thanks.

 

[justified]

I will reply sometime when I'm not running off to work, but I just wanted to note that although the Letter of Aristeas says it was translated by 70 in 72 days, they basically made that up. Aristeas is a pseudepigraphic letter from long after the fact.

 

[FreezBee]

I have a quick question: from the context of psalms 22 itself, how do we know that it's messianic?

It's a matter of taste! Notice that the psalm begins with the recitor addressing God:

My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from the words of my groaning?

So the recitor is in trouble and asks why God is not saving him.

Then the recitor compares his situation with history:

4 In you our fathers put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.
5 They cried to you and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not disappointed.

The frustartion of the recitor is that he has trusted God as well, so why does God not save him? After more complaints we thaen have the next turn:

22 I will declare your name to my brothers;
in the congregation I will praise you.

This is what the recitor will do in return for the salvation - and then follow all the praises.

This means that the recitor, if a messiah, is not God, since the psalm is addressed to God. It is depicting a human situation, which of course a messiah might experience, but it is not limited to a messiah. The psalm is only messoanic, if you choose it to be - it's all about putting your trust in God as your saviour.


- FreezBee