PS3 is great! If you don't treat it as a game console

Dracil said:

Also most "best bang for buck" analyses for the PS3 conveniently forget to include a $1000-$2000 HDTV to make use of it.

And one recent chart I saw had the DS Lite outselling *everything else combined*

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You're right.

The DS Lite numbers for that same week are 146,073.



DS Lite- 146,073

Wii- 65,740

PS3- 18,727

360- 6,130

DragnGT said:

The Wii is no where near the level the PS3 and 360 are at.

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What level is that? I could just as easily say that the PS3 and the 360 are nowhere near the level that the Wii is at. The Wii surpasses these systems in many areas.

I know alot of people want it to be because it's selling, it's neat and cheap but it doesn't exactly define next-gen as easily as the other two systems.

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What's your definition of next-gen? If it's graphics, then you're right. If it's everything else, then you're wrong.

It's not always this way and I'm sure there are tons of stories out there, but a local guy on the car forums here got himself and his kids a Wii for Christmas. He had it for sale in January because he and his son were board with it.

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That's nice. Perhaps they're a products of American consumerism?

I was playing Wii sports at my friend Tommy's house last weekend and we got to talking about consoles and he said he felt the Wii was very kid oriented and he didn't think it would hold up very well in the long run with better and larger games that the two other systems could run.

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Better is subjective, as is larger. Zelda is a large game. If Nintendo gets a few RPGs, those will be large games as well. Kid orientated is fun sometimes!

HDTV is here,

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It is not mainstream yet, and won't be until at least the next generation of console systems.

...that is next-gen TV and a next-gen game system should be able to match the TV.

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A ratio of 4:1 people disagree with you (I'm comparing Wii sales VS. PS3 sales in Japan. X-Box 360 is a non-factor.).

Blu-ray is out selling HD-DVD despite it's head start in the market and more movies are being released in the blu-ray format than the HD-DVD every month. It may take just a bit longer to really lengthen the lead but it's doing it.

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This is also a non-factor to the mainstream, as neither medium will be common for years... if at all.


For the record, I do have an HDTV. My PC is hooked up to it. I also have an X-Box, which I mainly used for emulators, hooked up. Puzzle Bobble 4 on MAME and WindJammers on Neo-Geo are the most played games. They definitely don't use hi-res graphics! I have none of the new consoles, but have played them all a fair bit. At this point, I would consider buying a Wii, because it's a blast to play with a few friends. I'm lightly considering an X-Box 360. There is absolutely nothing about the PS3 that interests me yet.

Dracil said:

BTW, I seriously don't understand the American obsession with not playing so-called "kid" games. If anything, the only people who go bat-manure crazy for "mature" "hardcore" games are teens and young adults. The actual adults with full-time jobs and married are the ones who end up playing on so-called "kid" systems. The casual gamer crowd really should not be underestimated, as that's where the majority of women and adults are.

I have an anecdote about system sales as well: My CS professor got herself a Wii a week or so ago.

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I'm guessing you mean married with kids and not just married because I know a few in both that don't own a Wii. But their kid isn't old enough to want a video game system yet anyway. But you're right, they buy the Wii for the kids and not themselves. Any of them our age (mid 20s) have already experienced what the Wii has to offer with our N64. The Wii is nothing more than a Gamecube with motion control. Once 20-30yr old gamers realize that the console may loose it's appeal just like the gamecube did.

Playing adult centered games is like watching R rated movies. It's fun to watch Nemo every once in a while but sometimes you just gotta break out Saw 3 and get grossed out.

Breetai said:

You're right.

The DS Lite numbers for that same week are 146,073.



DS Lite- 146,073

Wii- 65,740

PS3- 18,727

360- 6,130

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Props to the DS lite. But I got work, school, social life and then my home. Once I'm home I don't want to play a handheld. I feel like I'm 10 again. I'd sell a DS or PSP if you gave it to me because it's pointless unless I rode an airplane once a week. And in that case I'd take the PSP so I can watch a movie.

DragnGT said:

Props to the DS lite. But I got work, school, social life and then my home. Once I'm home I don't want to play a handheld. I feel like I'm 10 again. I'd sell a DS or PSP if you gave it to me because it's pointless unless I rode an airplane once a week. And in that case I'd take the PSP so I can watch a movie.

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In most cities in Japan, and especially the Tokyo and Osaka areas, trains are the main ways of travel for most people. They are more popular than cars. As a result, handhelds are insanely popular with all ages.

The reason why the DS is more popular than the PSP is because of it's educational software. A LOT of business people have language, kanji (Chinese character), math, sudoku, etc. software that they can use on the DS (similar the 'The Brain Age' in English). The touchscreen is really friendly to these programs. It's not Mario and Winning Eleven Football that's selling DS Lites... it's educational software and puzzles (and Pokemon...)!

Breetai said:

What level is that? I could just as easily say that the PS3 and the 360 are nowhere near the level that the Wii is at. The Wii surpasses these systems in many areas.

What's your definition of next-gen? If it's graphics, then you're right. If it's everything else, then you're wrong.

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Next-gen needs to keep up with technology or be slightly ahead. It doesn't have the power of the other systems nor the HD support in game output or media support.

Better is subjective, as is larger. Zelda is a large game. If Nintendo gets a few RPGs, those will be large games as well. Kid orientated is fun sometimes!

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You're right but I see a nice list of games that I'm looking forward to that aren't coming to the Wii. And what has gone to the Wii that the rest of us would want are available on the other 2 systems. I don't miss Metroid, Mario and the like.

It is not mainstream yet, and won't be until at least the next generation of console systems.

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It's not mainstream yet but they're selling quite alot of them and TV is broadcasting for it and more channels are being added along the way. I'm not gonna wait just because someone else hasn't got one yet.

A ratio of 4:1 people disagree with you (I'm comparing Wii sales VS. PS3 sales in Japan. X-Box 360 is a non-factor.).

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360 is a factor because it was made to produce the HD signal.

This is also a non-factor to the mainstream, as neither medium will be common for years... if at all.


For the record, I do have an HDTV. My PC is hooked up to it. I also have an X-Box, which I mainly used for emulators, hooked up. Puzzle Bobble 4 on MAME and WindJammers on Neo-Geo are the most played games. They definitely don't use hi-res graphics! I have none of the new consoles, but have played them all a fair bit. At this point, I would consider buying a Wii, because it's a blast to play with a few friends. I'm lightly considering an X-Box 360. There is absolutely nothing about the PS3 that interests me yet.

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Depends how techy you are. I want to fully use my HDTV. I have NO dvd player. So I wanted either an HD-DVD player or Blu-ray. I read up on the support for each and also looked at both platforms of game consoles (360 & PS3) to see which could cover all of my bases. Cost for cost (same price) I chose the PS3 over the 360. That's the summed up version but my HD entertainment console is completed 'better' with the PS3.

DragnGT said:

Next-gen needs to keep up with technology or be slightly ahead. It doesn't have the power of the other systems nor the HD support in game output or media support.

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Its motion sensor controller isn't technology that's ahead? It's created a whole new game experience, has totally captivated and recaptured its original main audience; kids, and has also gained the interest of both the other main market (teens and young adults) and of older people who don't even play games! The sales numbers totally back this up.

I'd say that Nintendo is proving, has proved, that graphics technology (because when you say technology, it's clear that you're just talking about graphics) is not what is needed to keep pace with the rest of the industry. In run-away fact, so far, Nintendo has not only kept pace, it's leading the back my a large margin! That's not to say that it will keep that lead, but at this point in time, Nintendo is leading without new flashy graphics. It's like a breath of fresh air.

You're right but I see a nice list of games that I'm looking forward to that aren't coming to the Wii.

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So do I. Most of them are on the X-Box 360. The only thing that's missing is Metal Gear. I won't miss it (unless I feel some need to own a PS3).

And what has gone to the Wii that the rest of us would want are available on the other 2 systems.

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Good grief... Did you just say that?

I don't miss Metroid, Mario and the like.

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It's not mainstream yet but they're selling quite alot of them and TV is broadcasting for it and more channels are being added along the way. I'm not gonna wait just because someone else hasn't got one yet.

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Ummm... you do realize that you've just proved my previous point, don't you?

You may want to note that this HDTV thing is really only catching on in the USA is any moderate amount. Japan is still a few years behind. Your neighbors to the north, Canada, still haven't bothered with it yet.

360 is a factor because it was made to produce the HD signal.

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I based my ratio on sales of the systems in Japan (since I live here and all...). X-Box 360 is indeed a non-factor here, as it's numbers are so small.

Depends how techy you are. I want to fully use my HDTV. I have NO dvd player. So I wanted either an HD-DVD player or Blu-ray. I read up on the support for each and also looked at both platforms of game consoles (360 & PS3) to see which could cover all of my bases. Cost for cost (same price) I chose the PS3 over the 360. That's the summed up version but my HD entertainment console is completed 'better' with the PS3.

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That's just it, you've got yourself an HD player over a game console. I guess this thread pertains to you better than nearly everyone else here.

Breetai said:

Its motion sensor controller isn't technology that's ahead? It's created a whole new game experience, has totally captivated and recaptured its original main audience; kids, and has also gained the interest of both the other main market (teens and young adults) and of older people who don't even play games! The sales numbers totally back this up.

I'd say that Nintendo is proving, has proved, that graphics technology (because when you say technology, it's clear that you're just talking about graphics) is not what is needed to keep pace with the rest of the industry. In run-away fact, so far, Nintendo has not only kept pace, it's leading the back my a large margin! That's not to say that it will keep that lead, but at this point in time, Nintendo is leading without new flashy graphics. It's like a breath of fresh air.

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If the graphics don't improve, for the most part, people loose interest in the game. That's why we aren't still using NES systems or the Genesis.

How many sales of the Wii are adult vs kid based sales? You can't really tell but you can assume that the kids aren't getting $400+ video game systems in their rooms.

When I say technology I mean an immersive gameplay with not only the realism that makes it fun but the speed, AI and physics engines that control it. I'm an absolute car nut and Gran Turismo delivers a nearly perfect simulation to the 500 cars they offer in the game on just a DVD. GT5 should be even better with the space they have to work with now. Motion controll from the Wii is great but it can be duplicated with the sixaxis if the developer wants to do it.

Here's an example of the two combined: http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/761/761161/vids_1.html
Look at the video interview from Oct. 23.

So do I. Most of them are on the X-Box 360. The only thing that's missing is Metal Gear. I won't miss it (unless I feel some need to own a PS3).

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I said they're on both consoles and I'm not worried about listing exclusives.

Good grief... Did you just say that?

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Name something.

Ummm... you do realize that you've just proved my previous point, don't you?

You may want to note that this HDTV thing is really only catching on in the USA is any moderate amount. Japan is still a few years behind. Your neighbors to the north, Canada, still haven't bothered with it yet.

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I didn't dissagree with you. I know that everyone doesn't have one yet. But just like color TV, it will catch on.

I based my ratio on sales of the systems in Japan (since I live here and all...). X-Box 360 is indeed a non-factor here, as it's numbers are so small.

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I didn't know how popular the 360 is in Japan. But it's a factor here in the US and is the real competitor to the PS3. Usually someone who has an interest in a PS3 is bombarded with 360 fanboys. Few people in the US compare the Wii to the PS3, it's an unfair fight.

That's just it, you've got yourself an HD player over a game console. I guess this thread pertains to you better than nearly everyone else here.

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I'm dumbfounded by people who assume I should have spent more money on seperate units and come out with less. I have never owned a stand alone DVD player. I bought the xbox so I could play DVDs and because I played Halo with a friend and got hooked to video games again. I stopped playing after the Genesis. I tried to like the N64 but didn't. So when I sold my xbox and ps2 to get the ps3 I didn't have a DVD player much less a high def player for the new TV. So my ps3 does what my ps2 and xbox did but way better and it does it on my hdtv.

My roommate only has a ps2 as his dvd player. Four of my other friends all have ps2s as their only dvd players + game systems. Why do people think this is so odd? It's cost effective.

How many sales of the Wii are adult vs kid based sales? You can't really tell but you can assume that the kids aren't getting $400+ video game systems in their rooms.

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Quite a few adults are using the Wii here. I'm not sure about the US as much. I think that a greater ratio of adults play games in Japan than in the US.

When I say technology I mean an immersive gameplay with not only the realism that makes it fun but the speed, AI and physics engines that control it. I'm an absolute car nut and Gran Turismo delivers a nearly perfect simulation to the 500 cars they offer in the game on just a DVD. GT5 should be even better with the space they have to work with now. Motion controll from the Wii is great but it can be duplicated with the sixaxis if the developer wants to do it.

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Well, there ya go! The PS3 is for you!

I didn't know how popular the 360 is in Japan.

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I posted the sales numbers from last week a few posts back. Here they are again:

Wii- 65,740

PS3- 18,727

360- 6,130

As you can see, the 360 is barely on the charts here.

But it's a factor here in the US and is the real competitor to the PS3. Usually someone who has an interest in a PS3 is bombarded with 360 fanboys. Few people in the US compare the Wii to the PS3, it's an unfair fight.

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It's like comparing apples and oranges. They are almost in different categories at this point, because the type of play style offered is so different.

Where do you find the sales figures? Do they show US sales?

DragnGT said:

Where do you find the sales figures? Do they show US sales?

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http://www.famitsu.com/ is nice. As for US figures, try a google search. Maybe Gamespot.com has them.http://www.famitsu.com/

Maybe you'd be interested to here that the new number one game in Japan is a PS3 game; Virtua Fighter 5 (it's also on the X-Box 360, but virtually nobody in Japan has one of those).

Thanks. The reason Virtual Fighter 5 is at the top is because US owners create an asian psn account to buy the game. I won't be getting VF5 it doesn't interest me.

DragnGT said:

Thanks. The reason Virtual Fighter 5 is at the top is because US owners create an asian psn account to buy the game. I won't be getting VF5 it doesn't interest me.

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What the heck are you talking about?

The reason it's at the top is because Virtua Fighter 5 is extremely popular here. It's more popular than in the west. The PS3 is the number 2 system here, and there are definitely enough owners to push a PS3 game to the top. In fact, VF5 is a system seller here. It will help more PS3s sell.

Foreigners importing the game barely makes a dent on the market here.

My bad. I was thinking of Tekken. I was trying to be humble and say how the US was helping with the sale of that game but I had the games mixed up. My fault.

The Wii is a gimmick. All it takes is the ps3 and/or a 360 to make a controller like that and Nintendo would be put to shame. It took time, but I am a Nintendo hater now. They have watered down games for far too long. They were so much better in the NES days. Every kind of game imaginable could be found there but now we are stuck with buying mario and metroid and zelda over and over again. A good game system has originality and technology to back itself up. Re-inventing the wheel makes a demand for mediocrity.

The wii-remote technology is actually very old technology. And what are they doing with that technology? Boxing and bowling with cutesy cartoony crap. The reason why the nes was popular was they have more than cartoony junk.


/end rant

holyorders said:

The Wii is a gimmick. All it takes is the ps3 and/or a 360 to make a controller like that and Nintendo would be put to shame. It took time, but I am a Nintendo hater now. They have watered down games for far too long. They were so much better in the NES days. Every kind of game imaginable could be found there but now we are stuck with buying mario and metroid and zelda over and over again. A good game system has originality and technology to back itself up. Re-inventing the wheel makes a demand for mediocrity.

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Dude, Nintendo didn't make every kind of game in the NES days either. Other companies contributed to that. If the Wii grows in popularity, as it is now, you'll see 'every kind of game' come to the system... sort of like how it is on the DS now.

The wii-remote technology is actually very old technology.

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So is electricity.

And what are they doing with that technology? Boxing and bowling with cutesy cartoony crap.

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Congratulations, you've partially described ONE of the games on the recently released Wii. Buy yourself a cookie.

The reason why the nes was popular was they have more than cartoony junk.

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If you'd look at Nintendo's game list, you'd realize they have more than that now... and they always have.

Breetai said:

Dude, Nintendo didn't make every kind of game in the NES days either. Other companies contributed to that. If the Wii grows in popularity, as it is now, you'll see 'every kind of game' come to the system... sort of like how it is on the DS now.
So is electricity.

Congratulations, you've partially described ONE of the games on the recently released Wii. Buy yourself a cookie.

If you'd look at Nintendo's game list, you'd realize they have more than that now... and they always have.

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Thanks. You saved me the time of having to reply.

holyorders said:

A good game system has originality and technology to back itself up. Re-inventing the wheel makes a demand for mediocrity.

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Yes, and we're seeing so much originality with that technology! Slightly Updated Annual Football Game! 52nd World War II-themed First Person Shooter! Be still my heart!