proving evolution as just a "theory"

Jimmy D · Nov 7, 2017

xianghua said:
also: we realy need to believe that a terrestrial dog- like creature evolved into a whale in about 4-5 my?

No, you need to believe that an "Intelligent designer" created this dog like creature, destroyed it before anyone saw it, and then created a very similar creature but which could live in the sea 4 million years later, only to destroy and replace it with a similar creature etc, etc, etc for tens of millions of years until we see the whales of today. Everyone's got to have a hobby I suppose, eternity is a long time.

rjs330 · Nov 7, 2017

Justatruthseeker said:
Umm, if I’m not mistaken those they claim are experts got their information by reading too.

Yep. It's a little silly to accuse any of us of plagarism.

rjs330 · Nov 7, 2017

ruthiesea said:
That's not necessarily true. For example, bats come from common descent, but not all possess sonar location

You can't show they came from a common ancestor. You can't show they came from the same ancestor we did.

tas8831 · Nov 7, 2017

BradB said:
relevant

How is comparing cars relevant to analyzing genes? Analogies are only so useful.

Do forensic scientists have to observe a crime take place in order to prove one very likely happened?

Not at all - and yet people like you keep demanding direct observation of evolution.

Odd how you want to argue both sides of an argument depending on the issue.

Isn't it?

So then you do have an example where a random mutation was observed under a controlled condition in a multi celled organism which was beneficial and information gaining Because you don't get a free circular reasoning pass here.

Wait - did you not just write "Do forensic scientists have to observe a crime take place in order to prove one very likely happened?" in response to being asked if you had seen an act of creation?

Why the double standards? Because you recognize that without them, you have no leg to stand on?

You say "evolution is true because patterns of mutation are observed." and when asked how do we know they are evidence for relationship? you say "Because we observe it in the known relations. Then when asked how do you know that still holds true to the unknowns? you say "Because evolution is true."

I have not done so - can you show me where I made those connections?

I agree that observed patterns of mutations are evidence for evolution. I know that patterns of shared mutations are indicative of common descent because of the tests on knowns. But I have never answered the question about applying tested methods to unknowns with anything remotely similar to "because evolution is true."

Was that just a fantasy exchange of yours?

Since you like analogies to inanimate objects, lets try this one -

The Wright brothers wanted to build a heavier-than-air flying machine. They knew it had to have wings, but they were not sure exactly how to make them for their machine - what shape, size, etc. So they made models. And they tested the models to which one generated the most lift and such. Then they made scale models using these test results. Then they tweaked the results of those tests, and made a real heavier-than-air flying craft.

The results of their work was then used - and added to - to ultimately make things like the F-35.

If we were to apply your logical argument made against DNA analysis supporting evolution, we would have to dismiss that applicability of the Wright Flyer of 1903 to modern aircraft.

Which makes no sense.

That is like claiming you have invented a device that weighs invisible fairies.

No, it is like claiming that the work of dozens of researchers and programmers and mathematicians and geneticists has produced a means of assessing hypotheses of common ancestry based on known trends and observations in the genomes of catalogued taxa.

And being asked how do you know it is accurate? And you saying because it weighs known things accurately. Then being asked how much do invisible fairies weigh? and you respond "according to the scale they don't weigh anything."

All these dopey and inapt analogies, all to say "I don't understand how those analyses operate, but I must dismiss evolution at all costs, so I will misrepresent your position and do all I can to obscure the actual implications of the research you presented."

You have to prove the basic premise that fairies even exist before you can say your fairy machine is accurate.

Sort of like testing analytical methods on known lineages?

Again it doesn't matter how "fool proof" the test is on known things if you haven't made an observable case for the basic premise of the unknown. You can show me all day long how well your scale works on known subjects (like mice) however that doesn't make a case for how the mice came to exist to begin with. The premise here is that all life shares a common ancestor.

And yet another creationist that cannot see the relevance of the studies, even when they are explained.

It has to be voluntary, I cannot believe that all creationists are this under-informed.

We cannot build upon that premise as if it is a known fact and use it to claim that our test works and then claim the premise is true because our test proves it.

Of course we can.

We calibrate scales using known masses. Your claim is, in essence, like declaring the use of known masses to calibrate scales is a travesty because it assumes that the scales measure the mass in the first place.

You are just very, very desperate to find a way to dismiss a great tool for assessing evolutionary relatedness.

And you are making yourself look silly and desperate in doing so.

Are you really this unaware of the use of things like standards?

To prove the premise is even possible you must present an example where a random mutation was observed under a controlled condition in a multi celled organism which was beneficial and information gaining.

"Do forensic scientists have to observe a crime take place in order to prove one very likely happened?"

Here's something to consider: Since we know there are essential genes that are necessary for the viability of an organism, a logical conclusion is that an organism 1 can not evolve into organism 2 that carries organism 2 specific essential genes but do not have homologs in organism 1. All the essential genes must have homologs in its ancestor even though not necessary for the survival of the ancestor.

Do you think you have to know why someone does something in order to prove they did it?

"Do forensic scientists have to observe a crime take place in order to prove one very likely happened?"

Good for the YEC goose, but not fore the non-YEC gander.

If it were not for doouble-standards, the creationist would have no standards at all.

Amazing.

Amazing how you will argue out of both sides of your mouth to rescue your bible claims and dismiss evolution.

You people are something to behold.

rjs330 · Nov 7, 2017

Justatruthseeker said:
Evolution can’t explain it even if you remove God and creation.

Asians don’t evolve into Afro-Asians, they remain Asians. Not a single animal on this planet evolves into something else, they always remain the same. Only when they mate with another subspecies does variation happen.

Fossil A mated with fossil B to produce fossil C. Neither fossil A nor fossil B evolved into fossil C.

Evolution can’t explain reality even if you remove God totally from the picture.

Good point. But evolution is all they have. They have no other way to explain any if it.

HitchSlap · Nov 7, 2017

rjs330 said:
Good point. But evolution is all they have. They have no other way to explain any if it.

Yep. That’s why it’s a theory.

pitabread · Nov 7, 2017

rjs330 said:
Good point. But evolution is all they have. They have no other way to explain any if it.

Biological evolution is the only explanation on the table. There is no explanation via creation currently.

rjs330 · Nov 7, 2017

Jimmy D said:
And we all cite our sources.

I could also have pointed out that exact same post is taken verbatim from another forum (EvC) where the points have been addressed.

No we don't. I have seen many many evolutionists on here say stuff but not cite the source. It happens all the time. My point is so what? It we we're writing a doctoral thesis or an article for a paper or magazine it will be problematic. Here we are just a bunch of people sharing information thoughts and ideas. Who cares if someone doesn't cite the source where they got the information. If you want a source ask for one.

tas8831 · Nov 7, 2017

rjs330 said:
Yep. It's a little silly to accuse any of us of plagarism.

Do you even know what plagiarism is?

It is not recounting something you read or heard, it is pasting, verbatim, the words of others and presenting them as your own. It is an act of dishonesty.

I don't know about others, but I have personally caught 3 YECs plagiarizing on here, and none of them would confess even when I presented the original sources.

I would say that THAT is silly, at best.

rjs330 · Nov 7, 2017

pitabread said:
Biological evolution is the only explanation on the table. There is no explanation via creation currently.

Sure there is. It's call Genesis.
At least where the original creatures all came from. You may discuss the fact that evolution among creatures exists such as the finches wing change or a lizard's digestive system change. But as far as where and how it all started we have that information.

tas8831 · Nov 7, 2017

Justatruthseeker said:
And yet some animals have different numbers including 4. So it’s ok for something to evolve from one to 4 but not go from 4 to 2? Ahh, so when man fused chromosomes of course that wasn’t learhal or even harmful, but beneficial, because that’s your belief, yes?

Would that coincide with your belief that a person can’t have two blood types?

https://pictorial.jezebel.com/one-person-two-sets-of-dna-the-strange-case-of-the-hu-1689290862

It seems the more we learn, the less likely your claims become.

The 44 Chromosome Man | Understanding Genetics

See above, the more we learn....

Tell me, did that single celled organism that reproduced by cloning, die out when it split its chromosomes to become both male and female? Exactly how did it do this? What was the exact mechanism?

Ahh, you don’t have a clue, but it’s ok for you to not know the exact mechanism, just not for creationists, right? The arrogance of people that can’t even explain their own theory then expect of others what they can’t provide.

Then you should go back to school to learn how single celled organisms did it, oh wait, they don’t know either...... this is where we insert the magic word mutation, as if that solves the problem, right?

More later - but I find it hilarious that you present anomalies and 'curious cases' as vindication, when we all know that in order for your 3rd grade bible genetics to be real, these would have to be the norm, not mere anomalies and curiosities.

And by the way - funny that you link to the man with 44 chromosomes - your fellow YECs like to use karyotype claims against evolution. But here you are implying that it is no big deal.

of course, having an extra chromosome is NOT tertraploid, but how would you know that?

rjs330 · Nov 7, 2017

tas8831 said:
Do you even know what plagiarism is?

It is not recounting something you read or heard, it is pasting, verbatim, the words of others and presenting them as your own. It is an act of dishonesty.

I don't know about others, but I have personally caught 3 YECs plagiarizing on here, and none of them would confess even when I presented the original sources.

I would say that THAT is silly, at best.

Who cares? What do you care if someone quotes something in here without posting the source. We are not writing a thesis. Please show a verbatim cut and paste where someone did that. And please show how that is so terrible.

pitabread · Nov 7, 2017

rjs330 said:
Sure there is. It's call Genesis.
At least where the original creatures all came from. You may discuss the fact that evolution among creatures exists such as the finches wing change or a lizard's digestive system change. But as far as where and how it all started we have that information.

It's not an actual explanation. An explanation goes into the details of how things came about (in other words what the underlying mechanisms were involved). A proper explanation would also better cover exactly what was created. Creationists keep going on about "kinds" but can't seem to agree on any remotely consistent definition. Furthermore there is little to no agreement or evidence on what those originally created kinds would have entailed genetically and how they subsequently diversified.

So no, you don't have an explanation. The details in Genesis amount to little more than "God made stuff".

rjs330 · Nov 7, 2017

tas8831 said:
Please show your observable verifiable and testable evidence that the Hebrew tribal deity willed dust of the ground into an adult, fully formed human male no more than 10,000 years ago.

At least there are those looking into abiogenesis - and this is just one guy's lab and collaborators:

2017
Moore EK, Hao J, Sverjensky DA, Jelen BI, Meyer M, Hazen RM and Falkowski PG Geological and chemical factors that impacted the biological utilization of cobalt in the Archean Eon. (in review)
Hao J, Sverjensky DA and Hazen RM Limits on the partial pressure of H2 in the Archean atmosphere during weathering of basaltic minerals. Geochemica et Cosmochimica Acta (in review)
Estrada C, Sverjensky DA and Hazen RM Selective adsorption of calcium-aspartate ligands onto [Mg(OH)2]-brucite: Implications for calcium in prebiotic chemistry. Astrobiology (in review)
Estrada C, Sverjensky DA and Hazen RM Enhanced and inhibited adsorption of D-ribose with Ca2+ and Mg2+ onto brucite [Mg(OH)2]. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta (in review)
Hazen RM Chance, necessity, and the origins of life. Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society A (in review)
54. Estrada CE, Mamajanov I, Hao J, Sverjensky DA, Cody GD and Hazen RM (2017) Aspartate transformation at 200 °C with brucite [Mg(OH)2], NH3, and H2: Implications for prebiotic molecules in hydrothermal systems. Chemical Geology 457:162-172
53. Gherase D, Hazen RM, Krishnamurthy R and Blackmond DG (2017) Mineral-Induced Enantioenrichment of Tartaric Acid. Synlett 28(1):89-92
Wenge J, Pacella MS, Athanasiadou D, Nelea V, Vali H, Hazen RM, Gray JJ, McKee MD (2017) Chiral acidic amino acids induce chiral hierarchical structure in calcium carbonate. Nature Communications 8:15066

2016
Ertem G, Ertem MC, McKay CP and Hazen RM (2016) Shielding biomolecules from effects of radiation by Mars analogue minerals and soils. Astrobiology 6(3):280-285
Grew ES, Krivovichev SV, Hazen RM and Hystad G (2016) Evolution of structural complexity in boron minerals. Canadian Mineralogist 54(1):125-143

2015
Liu X-M, Kah LC, Knoll AH, Cui H, Kaufman AJ, Shahar A and Hazen RM (2015) Tracing Earth’s O2 evolution using Zn/Fe ratios in marine carbonates. Geochemical Perspective Letters 2(1):24-34
Estrada C, Sverjensky DA, Pelletier M, Razafitianamharavo A, Hazen RM (2015) Interaction between L-aspartate and the brucite [Mg(OH)2]-water interface. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 155:172-186 [pdf]
Grosch EG, Hazen RM (2015) Microbes, mineral evolution, and the rise of micro-continents: Origin and co-evolution of life with early Earth. Astrobiology 15(10):922-939
Nance JR, Armstrong JT, Cody GD, Fogel ML, Hazen RM (2015) Preserved shell-binding protein and associated pigment in the Middle Miocene (8 to 18 Ma) gastropod Ecphora. Geochemical Perspectives Letters 1:1-8
Grew ES, Dymek RF, De Hoog JCM, Harley SL, Boak JM, Hazen RM and Yates MG (2015) Boron isotopes in tourmaline from the ca. 3.7–3.8 Ga Isua supracrustal belt, Greenland: Sources for boron in Eoarchean continental crust and seawater. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 163:156-177

2014
Hazen RM (2014) Enantioselective adsorption on rock-forming minerals: A thought experiment. Surface Science 629:11-14
Lee N, Foustoukos DI, Sverjensky DA, Cody GD, Hazen RM (2014) The effects of temperature, ph and redox state on the stability of glutamic acid in hydrothermal fluids. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 135:66-86
Lee N, Sverjensky DA, Hazen RM (2014) Cooperative and competitive adsorption of amino acids with Ca2+ on rutile (α-TiO2). Environmental Science and Technology 48:9358-9365
Lee N, Foustoukos DI, Sverjensky DA, Cody GD, Hazen RM (2014) Hydrogen enhances the stability of amino acids in hydrothermal environments. Chemical Geology 386:184-189

2013
Livi KJT, Schaffer B, Azzolini D, Seabourne CR, Hardcastle TP, Scott AJ, Hazen RM, Erlebacher JD, Brydson R, Sverjensky DA (2013) Atomic scale roughness of rutile and implications for molecular surface adsorption. Langmuir 29:6876-6883
Noffke N, Christian D, Wacey D, Hazen RM (2013) Microbially induced sedimentary structures recording an ancient ecosystem in the ca. 3.48 billion-year-old Dresser Formation, Pilbara, Western Australia. Astrobiology Journal 13(12):1103-1124
Hazen RM (2013) Paleomineralogy of the Hadean Eon: A preliminary species list. American Journal of Science 313(9):807-843

2012
Hazen RM (2012) Geochemical origins of life. Fundamentals of Geobiology, eds Knoll AH, Canfield DE, Konhauser KO (Wiley-Blackwell, Oxford) pp 315-332
Hazen RM (2012) An accident waiting to happen (That’s Life). Eureka, The Times 33:14-19
Cleaves II HJ, Scott AM, Hill FC, Leszczynski J, Sahai N, Hazen RM (2012) Mineral-organic interfacial processes: potential roles in the origins of life. Chemical Society Reviews 41:5502-5525
Lee N, Hummer DR, Sverjensky DS, Rajh T, Hazen RM, Steele A, Cody GD (2012) Speciation of L-DOPA on nanorutile as a function of pH and surface coverage using surface-enhance Raman spectroscopy (SERS). Langmuir 28:17322-17330 [pdf]

2011
Bahri S, Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Azzolini D, Sverjensky DA, Hazen RM (2011) Adsorption and surface complexation study of L-DOPA on rutile (TiO2) in NaCl solutions. Environmental Science and Technology 45:3959-3966
Grew ES, Bada JL, Hazen RM (2011) Borate minerals and the origin of the RNA world. Origins of Life and Evolution of the Biosphere 41:307-316
Parikh SJ, Kubicki JD, Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Hazen RM, Sverjensky DA, Sparks DL (2011) Evaluating glutamate and aspartate binding mechanisms to rutile (a-TiO2) via ATR-FTIR spectroscopy and quantum chemical calculations. Langmuir 27:1778-1787 [pdf]
Cleaves II HJ, Crapster-Pregont E, Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Sverjensky DA, Hazen RM (2011) The adsorption of short single-stranded DNA oligomers to mineral surfaces. Chemosphere 8:1560–1567 [pdf]
Livi KJT, Schaffer B, Azzolini D, Seabourne CR, Sader K, Shannon M, Sverjensky D, Hazen RM, Brydson R (2011) Imaging the surface of Rutile by STEM and its implication for organic molecule bonding. Proceedings of the Microscopy Conference 2011 (MC2011), August 28-September 02, Kiel/Germany, p M6_P621

2010
Cleaves II HJ, Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Sverjensky DA, Hazen RM (2010) Adsorption of nucleic acid components on rutile (TiO2) surfaces. Astrobiology 10:311-323 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Sverjensky DA (2010) Mineral Surfaces, Geochemical Complexities and the Origins of Life. Origins of Cellular Life, eds Deamer DW, Szostak JW, Cold Springs Harbor Perspectives in Biology [pdf]
Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Sverjensky DA, Cleaves II HJ, Hazen RM (2010) Adsorption of L-asparate to rutile (a-TiO2): Experimental and theoretical surface complexation studies. Geochemica et Cosmochemica Acta 74:2356–2367 [pdf]
Hazen RM (2010) How old is the Earth, and how do we know? Evolution: Education and Outreach 3:198-205 [pdf]
Marshall-Bowman K, Ohara S, Sverjensky DA, Hazen RM and Cleaves HJ (2010) Catalytic peptide hydrolysis by mineral surface: Implications for prebiotic chemistry Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 74:20:5852-5861

2009
Hazen RM (2009) The emergence of patterning in life’s origin and evolution. International Journal of Developmental Biology 53:683-692 [pdf]
Hazen RM (2009) Emergence and the experimental pursuit of the origin of life. AAAS volume, ed Bertka C (Cambridge University Press, New York) pp 21-46
Hazen RM (2009) The chemical evolution of life: An Introduction. Chemical Evolution II: From Origins of Life to Modern Society, eds Zaikowski L, Friedrich JM. American Chemical Society Symposium Series 1025:3-13 [pdf]
Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Sverjensky DA, Cleaves HJ, Hazen RM (2009) Attachment of L-Glutamate to Rutile (a-TiO2): A potentiometric, adsorption, and surface complexation study. Langmuir 25:12127-12135 [pdf]

2008
Ertem G, Snellinger-O'Brien AM, Ertem MC, Rogoff DA, Dworkin JP, Johnston MV, Hazen RM (2008) Abiotic formation of RNA-like oligomers by montmorillonite catalysis: part II. International Journal of Astrobiology 7(1):1-7 [pdf]
Castro-Puyana M, Salgado A, Hazen RM, Crego AL, Marina ML (2008) Investiation of the enantioselective adsorption of 3-carboxy adipic acid on minerals by capillary electrophoresis. Electrophoresis 29:1548-1555 [pdf]
Brandes JA, Hazen RM, Yoder Jr HS (2008) Inorganic nitrogen reduction and stability under simulated hydrothermal conditions. Astrobiology 8:1113-1126 [pdf]
Sverjensky DA, Jonsson CM, Jonsson CL, Cleaves HJ, Hazen RM (2008) Glutamate surface speciation on amorphous titanium dioxide and hydrous ferric oxide. Environmental Science & Technology 40:6034-6039
Noffke N, Beukes N, Bower D, Hazen RM, Swift DJP (2008) An actualistic perspective into Archean worlds - (cyano-)bacterially induced sedimentary structures in the siliciclastic Nhlazatse Section, 2.9 Ga Pongola Supergroup, South Africa. Geobiology 6:5-20 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Papineau D, Bleeker W, Downs RT, Ferry J, McCoy T, Sverjensky D, Yang H (2008) Mineral evolution. American Mineralogist 93:1693-1720 [pdf]

2007
Hazen RM, Griffin PL, Carothers JM, Szostak JW (2007) Functional information and the emergence of biocomplexity. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 104:8574-8581 [pdf]
Hazen RM (2007) The emergence of chemical complexity: An Introduction. Chemical Evolution I: Chemical Change across Space and Time, eds Zaikowski L, Friedrich JM. American Chemical Society Symposium pp 2-14 [pdf]
Ertem G, Hazen RM, Dworkin JP (2007) Sequence analysis of trimer isomers formed by montmorillonite catalysis in the reaction of binary monomer mixtures. Astrobiology 7(5):715-724 [pdf]
Bada J, Fegley Jr B, Miller SL, Lazcano A, Cleaves HJ, Hazen RM, Chalmers J, Wachtershauser G, Huber C (2007) Debating evidence for the origin of life on Earth. Science 315(5814):937-938 [pdf]
Hazen RM (2007) Emergence and the origin of life: Presentation, questions and responses. Workshop Report: Philosophical, Ethical, and Theological Implications of Astrobiology, eds Bertka C, Roth N, Shindell M (American Association for the Advancement of Science, Washington) pp 30-40
Hazen RM, Deamer D (2007) Hydrothermal reactions of pyruvic acid: synthesis, selection, and self-assembly of amphiphilic molecules. Origins of Life and Evolution of the Biosphere 37:143-152 [pdf]
Boyce CK, Hotton CL, Fogel ML, Cody GD, Hazen RM, Knoll AH (2007) Devonian landscape heterogeneity recorded by a giant fungus. Geology 35:399-402 [pdf]

2006
Hazen RM (2006) Mineral surfaces and the prebiotic selection and organization of biomolecules (Presidential Address to the Mineralogical Society of America). American Mineralogist 91:1715-1729 [pdf]
Noffke N, Eriksson KA, Hazen RM, Simpson EL (2006) A new window into Early Archean life: Microbial mats in Earth's oldest siliciclastic tidal deposits (3.2 Ga Moodies Group, South Africa). Geology 34:253-256 [pdf]
Noffke N, Beukes N, Hazen RM, Gutzmer J (2006) Spatial and temporal distribution of microbially induced sedimentary structures: A case study from siliciclastic storm deposits of the 2.9 Ga Witwatersrand Supergroup, South Africa. Precambrian Research 146:35-44 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Steele A, Maule J, Martin R, Vicenzi E (2006) Applications of microarray technology to the study of mineral-molecule interactions. Astrobiology 6(1):223
Hazen RM, Snellinger AM, Dworkin JP, Scott JH, Cody GD, Fogel ML, Johnston MV, Ertem G (2006) MALDI-MS analysis of hetero-trimer fractions formed by montmorillonite catalysis in the reaction of binary monomer mixtures. Astrobiology 6(1):250-251
Asthagiri A, Hazen RM (2006) An ab initio study of adsorption of alanine on the chiral calcite (2131) surface. Molecular Simulation 33:343-351 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Deamer D (2006) Hydrothermal reactions of pyruvic acid: synthesis, selection, and self-assembly of amphiphilic molecules. Origins of Life and Evolution of the Biosphere 37:143-152 [pdf]

2005
Hazen RM (2005) Genesis: The Scientific Quest for Life's Origin. (Joseph Henry Press, Washington) 339 p
Hazen RM (2005) Genesis: Rocks, minerals and the geochemical origin of life. Elements 1(3):135-137 [pdf]

2004
Hazen RM (2004) Chiral crystal faces of common rock-forming minerals. Progress in Biological Chirality, eds Palyi G, Zucchi C, Cagglioti L (Elsevier, New York) pp 137-151 [pdf]
Churchill H, Teng H, Hazen RM (2004) Correlation of pH-dependent surface interaction forces to amino acid adsorption: Implications for the origin of life. American Mineralogist 89:1048-1055 [pdf]
Cody GD, Boctor NZ, Brandes JA, Filley TR, Hazen RM, Yoder Jr HS (2004) Assaying the catalytic potential of transition metal sulfides for prebiotic carbon fixation. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 68:2185-2196 [pdf]
Downs RT, Hazen RM (2004) Chiral indices of crystalline surfaces as a measure of enantioselective potential. Journal of Molecular Catalysis 216:273-285 [pdf]

2003
Noffke N, Nhleko N, Hazen RM (2003) Earth's earliest microbial mats in a siliciclastic marine environment (2.9 Ga Mozaan Group, South Africa). Geology 31:673-677 [pdf]
Hazen RM (2003) Factors that influence the emergence of complexity in prebiotic geochemical systems. Astrobiology 2(4):599
Hazen RM, Sholl DS (2003) Origins of biomolecular homochirality: selective molecular adsorption on crystalline surfaces. Astrobiology 2(4):598-599
Hazen RM, Steele A, Cody GD, Fogel ML, Huntress Jr WT (2003) Biosignatures and abiosignatures. Astrobiology 2(4):512-513
Boyce CK, Knoll AH, Cody GD, Fogel ML, Hazen RM (2003) Chemical evidence for cell wall lignification and the evolution of tracheids in Early Devonian plants. International Journal of Plant Science 164:691-702 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Sholl DS (2003) Chiral selection on inorganic crystalline surfaces. Nature Materials 2:367-374 [pdf]

2002
Sharma A, Scott JH, Cody GD, Fogel ML, Hazen RM, Hemley RJ and Huntress WT (2002) Microbial activity at gigapascal pressures. Science 295:1514-1516 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Boctor N, Brandes JA, Cody GD, Hemley RJ, Sharma A and Yoder Jr HS(2002) High pressure and the origin of life. Journal of Physics: Condensed Matter 14:1-6 [pdf]
Hazen RM (2002) Emergence and the origin of life. Fundamentals of life, eds Palyi G, Zucchi C, Caglioti L (Elsevier, New York) pp 41-50

2001
Cody GD, Hazen RM, Brandes JA, Morowitz HJ, Yoder Jr HS (2001) Geochemical roots of autotrophic carbon fixation: Hydrothermal experiments in the system citric acid, H2O-(±FeS)-(±NiS). Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 65:3557-3576 [pdf]
Hazen RM (2001) Life's rocky start. Scientific American 284(4):76-85 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Filley TR, Goodfriend GA (2001) Selective adsorption of L- and D-amino acids on calcite: implications for biochemical homochirality. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 98:5487-5490
Boyce CK, Hazen RM, Knoll AH (2001) Nondestructive, in situ, cellular-scale mapping of elemental abundances including organic carbon in permineralized fossils. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 98:5970-5974 [pdf]
Hazen RM, Roedder E (2001) How old are bacteria from the Permian age? Nature 411(6834):155 [pdf]

2000
Cody GD, Boctor NZ, Filley TR, Hazen RM, Scott JH, Yoder Jr HS (2000) Primordial carbonylated iron-sulfur compounds and the synthesis of pyruvate. Science 289:1337-1340 [pdf]
Brandes JA, Hazen RM, Yoder Jr HS, Cody GD (2000) Early pre- and post-biotic synthesis of alanine: an alternative to the Strecker synthesis. Perspectives in Amino Acid and Protein Geochemistry, eds Goodfriend GA, Collins MJ, Fogel ML, Macko SA, Wehmiller JF (Oxford University Press, New York) pp 41-59 [pdf]

1999
Hazen RM (1999) A new perspective on the origin of life. The NOVA Reader: Science at the Turn of the Millennium, ed Hackman S (TV Books, New York) pp 48-54
Hazen RM (1999) Book review of "Cradle of Life: The Discovery of Earth's Earliest Fossils" by Schopf JW. Physics Today 52(10):75-76

1998
Brandes JA, Boctor NZ, Cody GD, Cooper BA, Hazen RM, Yoder Jr HS (1998) Abiotic nitrogen reduction on the early Earth. Nature 395:365-367 [pdf] Also, Chris Chyba's commentary on this article: [pdf]
Hazen RM (1998) The stuff of life: What was life's first energy source? The Planetary Report 18:16-17

Geophysical Laboratory
5251 Broad Branch Road NW Washington DC 20015
P: 202.478.8900 F: 202.478.8901

Ah so you don't have any evidence. I didn't think so. It's based upon faith just like mine is. Because ID is obvious. But the intelligence behind it is not verifiable

pitabread · Nov 7, 2017

tas8831 said:
Oh, I know that.

It is the resident genetics expert - with knowledge to trump all of academia - who wrote "allies" for weeks until he was corrected.

He also wrote "phonetic traits" instead of phenotypic traits (and he wrote this like 10 times before getting the hint), also wrote "genetic strains" to mean genotype (I guess).

I just have to remind him of his lack of even basic knowledge of these topics.

Gotcha. I figured your references to "phonetic traits" were; didn't realize "allies" was the same deal.

Funny how the resident genetics expert hasn't corrected you though .

pitabread · Nov 7, 2017

rjs330 said:
Ah so you don't have any evidence. I didn't think so. It's based upon faith just like mine is.

If you actually bothered to look into modern abiogenesis research, you'd know there's a wee bit more to it than just "faith". But you won't so you don't.

HitchSlap · Nov 7, 2017

rjs330 said:
Ah so you don't have any evidence. I didn't think so. It's based upon faith just like mine is. Because ID is obvious. But the intelligence behind it is not verifiable

And we have a pigeon chess winner.

BradB · Nov 7, 2017

Edison Trent said:
Yes and the bible makes the same fact about were that material dirt came from as well. a process like dirt to flesh to bone, each step is a process from the beginning, the earth was void and empty, divided the waters above and below,, dry land appeared then the oceans and sea life even the flying fish spend time flying and swimming.

I'm not sure I understand you point and or question?

PsychoSarah · Nov 7, 2017

Justatruthseeker said:
Evolution can’t explain it even if you remove God and creation.

Asians don’t evolve into Afro-Asians, they remain Asians. Not a single animal on this planet evolves into something else, they always remain the same. Only when they mate with another subspecies does variation happen.

Fossil A mated with fossil B to produce fossil C. Neither fossil A nor fossil B evolved into fossil C.

Evolution can’t explain reality even if you remove God totally from the picture.

Dude, you flat out ignored me when I presented an example of mutation changing skin color. The genetic differences between "races" are extremely minor, and you'd have to think mutation never happens to think that it can't create such minor differences.

PsychoSarah · Nov 7, 2017

rjs330 said:
Ah so you don't have any evidence. I didn't think so. It's based upon faith just like mine is. Because ID is obvious. But the intelligence behind it is not verifiable

So says another creationist not participating in my evolution experiment I made specifically for creationists.

proving evolution as just a "theory"

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