Prove that Trump is a Racist

Jenny_8675309 · Aug 18, 2017

Tree of Life said:
I'm willing to hear anything. So far I've really seen nothing.

Plenty has been presented, and you dismiss it as nothing.So what are you willing to consider "serious" evidence?

4x4toy · Aug 18, 2017

Jenny_8675309 said:
Like what? How about you give us a clear idea of what you'd accept as "serious" evidence?

Here's some

Eryk · Aug 18, 2017

brinny said:
It's nothing new. There's always been those "badges" plastered on whole groups of people, just as the yellow stars were forced on the Jews in order to identify who was deemed sub-human, with no legal protections, and how an entire society developed a hatred for the yellow star-wear-ers.

Instead of comparing anti-Nazis to Nazis, you could instead point at the actual Nazis who marched at Charlottesville.

Jenny_8675309 · Aug 18, 2017

RogerRoger · Aug 18, 2017

Tree of Life said:
I would agree. If someone self identifies with one of these categories then I would have no problem calling them a racist. Has Trump or someone in his administration done so?

Have you looked into Sebastian Gorka?

He is seemingly a member of a Hungarian group called the Vitézi Rend, a group with clear ties to Nazi Germany that helped carry out the holocaust in Hungary, although some members apparently fought against it. Here's an excerpt from a letter sent by three senators expressing their concern about Gorka:

Dr. Gorka was photographed wearing a Vitézi Rend medal on several occasions, including at a Presidential inaugural ball earlier this year. He has also identified himself as “Dr. Sebastian L. v. Gorka” in written testimony before Congress. Experts note that the initial “v.” is used by sworn members of the Vitézi Rend.

Gorka's full name is Sebastian Lukács Gorka.

Rion · Aug 18, 2017

Jenny_8675309 said:
View attachment 205397

That certainly clears up how you see things, thanks!

4x4toy · Aug 18, 2017

Jenny_8675309 said:
View attachment 205397

Oh goody a cartoon

4x4toy · Aug 18, 2017

camille70 said:
Quoted for future reference.

Oh lawd , what is i'm gonna do

Rion · Aug 18, 2017

Eryk said:
Instead of comparing anti-Nazis to Nazis, you could instead point at the actual Nazis who marched at Charlottesville.

How about neo-Nazis to anarcho-communists?

4x4toy · Aug 18, 2017

Eryk said:
Instead of comparing anti-Nazis to Nazis, you could instead point at the actual Nazis who marched at Charlottesville.

I ain't gotta do nothing pal except enjoy the comedy and the spin .

Tree of Life · Aug 18, 2017

Jenny_8675309 said:
Plenty has been presented, and you dismiss it as nothing.So what are you willing to consider "serious" evidence?

All I saw wash the Gish Gallop. Which one of those pieces do you think is particularly strong?

Tree of Life · Aug 18, 2017

RogerRoger said:
Have you looked into Sebastian Gorka?

He is seemingly a member of a Hungarian group called the Vitézi Rend, a group with clear ties to Nazi Germany that helped carry out the holocaust in Hungary, although some members apparently fought against it. Here's an excerpt from a letter sent by three senators expressing their concern about Gorka:

Dr. Gorka was photographed wearing a Vitézi Rend medal on several occasions, including at a Presidential inaugural ball earlier this year. He has also identified himself as “Dr. Sebastian L. v. Gorka” in written testimony before Congress. Experts note that the initial “v.” is used by sworn members of the Vitézi Rend.

Gorka's full name is Sebastian Lukács Gorka.

No I haven't. I'll take a peek at this and get back with you.

RogerRoger · Aug 18, 2017

Tree of Life said:
No I haven't. I'll take a peek at this and get back with you.

He's one of those people for whom the public doesn't have a smoking gun, but the circumstances certainly suggest that Gorka is a member of VR. Here's some excerpt from a Rolling Stone piece that looks into this:

Perhaps even more worrisome, Gorka's thesis proposed a dramatic restructuring of the national-security apparatus to create a police state.... "That's about as Nazi Germany- or Soviet Union-like a proposal as I've ever heard," says Patrick Eddington of the conservative Cato Institute. "The net effect would be to suspend the Bill of Rights, if his proposal ever saw the light of day."

By all accounts, Gorka's own writing and statements at the time included no anti-Semitic comments, and neither The Forward nor other reporters who've investigated his background in Hungary have turned up any evidence that Gorka himself participated in anything that could be called anti-Jewish. "What you can say for sure is that he was allied with people who have very extremist views," says Péter Krekó of the Political Capital Institute in Hungary. "He was an opportunist, and he cooperated with figures who were very marginal."

Yet these denials are hard to square with Gorka's family background. Having fled Hungary for London after 1956, Gorka's parents joined a raucous mix of anti-Communist, right-wing exiles, including those who belonged to the Order of Knights (Vitézi Rend), an organization with an unsavory past. Vitézi Rend was created by the Nazi-backed ruler of Hungary, and many of its members were involved in the slaughter of Jews during the Holocaust. Today, members of the Order fall under an immigration watch by the State Department on groups that have violated human rights.

The main evidence of his involvement in VR is not necessarily the medal he wore, which he attributes to honoring his father, but his use of the "v" in his name when signing official documents, despite only having names that start with SLG (sebastian Lukacs Gorka). Members of VR swear a lifelong oath of loyalty.

He's apparently a Steve Bannon loyalist, so I expect him to be fired soon. That isn't really reflective of the White House's moral stance on his supposed affiliations, and more politicking as per usual

camille70 · Aug 18, 2017

4x4toy said:
Oh lawd , what is i'm gonna do

Interesting choice of grammar. Most likely you'll be walking that statement back and making excuses as to why Trump shouldn't go to jail.

Award-Winning Journalist Just Revealed Trump’s Ex-Partner Is Ratting Him Out For Bank Fraud

Allandavid · Aug 18, 2017

Tree of Life said:
So far no serious evidence has been put forth. Anyone have a piece that's worthy of consideration?

Feathers, webbed feet, quacking sound....it's a duck..

Tutorman · Aug 18, 2017

Tree of Life said:
But they're about as solid as sawdust upon closer examination.

or as useful as a screen door on a submarine

Tree of Life · Aug 18, 2017

Allandavid said:
Feathers, webbed feet, quacking sound....it's a duck..

Another accusation. Any evidence to discuss?

MoonlessNight · Aug 18, 2017

Tree of Life said:
All I saw wash the Gish Gallop. Which one of those pieces do you think is particularly strong?

For reference of those in the thread who might not understand the term, the "Gish Gallop" is when someone argues by putting forth a ridiculous number of claims in quick succession, usually without giving much of an argument about why any of them should be persuasive. If the other party tries to take on one point the "Gish Galloper" will usually not do much to defend it, but instead will suggest that all the other points collectively make so strong of argument that it doesn't matter if that individual point is weak.

It's a dishonest technique because the only way to deal with it is to conclusively dismantle every claim in the huge list (and the galloper will always demand that you provide more evidence in disproving his statements than he did in presenting them) which will usually take more time than the opponent has. Even if the opponent does manage to dismantle a good chunk of the claim, the galloper can simply spew forth another long list of weak arguments and claim that the weight of all of these are enough to prove his point.

The best way to deal with the strategy is to have both parties agree to focus on one issue, and make that the main topic of the discussion. If the galloper is allowed to select the topic of focus, he will presumably pick the strongest one. As such, if the galloper complains that all of his other points are stronger when his chosen argument is dismantled, the galloper will look either incompetent or dishonest, since it raises the question of why he didn't pick a stronger point if he knew that he had stronger points.

Yonny Costopoulis · Aug 18, 2017

Tree of Life said:
Or one of his cabinet members or advisors.

I'm genuinely open to the charge. But I've been disappointed. These charges are regularly leveled against this administration. And I investigate them. But they're about as solid as sawdust upon closer examination.

If you're one who levels this charge, please provide some evidence. I'm all ears.

Birther Movement.

Say Nazi and KKK side have some "very fine people".

Hank77 · Aug 18, 2017

LoAmmi said:
Also something of note: The idea to give Jews those badges didn't originate with the Nazis. It originated with Christian nations in the Middle ages.

I didn't know this and frankly am somewhat surprised, but only somewhat.

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