Since the PoJ is completely useless, the next source seems to be Eusebius of Rome for the EV idea. Probably associated with vestal virgins.
But again, this is not about that.
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I think I already gave my viewpoint on that matter earlier.
I said it's possible the truths got mixed with the untruths. The book gets gradually accepted because they perhaps already knew of some truths it contained (example: step brothers) and it just stuck around for awhile thereafter. And though He used the Proto as an example, He may have not had enough info on the subject as well to name other sources.
Or, you could be right, it could have been picked up, mingled with the proper cousin story taught by Ignatius, Polycarp, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, etc. as per Jerome, and found a life of it's own till Jerome decided to go agasint Helvidius that in turn brought attention back to the proper theory. Or maybe they both missed the boat and there's another lingering around somethere. Who knows. All I know is we don't hear much of a 'Mary had children' theory either unless one decides to again force their own language and culture onto the text. So excluding that, I believe you brought up only Tertullian there.
Well no. Sacred Tradtion works by way of weeding out the little ts since they obviously have mingled their way in over time like the Canon itself for example.
I dont understand calling someone constantly by their sexual status all the time, Like Virgin Nelly, or Virgin Joe.
Maybe, hey, theres Nelly, (psst... you know she's still a virgin?)
Well, if you were meddling into her matters maybe
Some questions would get me my face slapped for sure.
By the way, when you were Catholic, did you ever believe the stories about a child passing through an intact hymen?
Would you consider that to be a normal birth for something like that to happen back then when you were a part of that faith community?
I am just wondering about some of the answers and whether people are trying to pull my leg or not or if this is something that people actually believe?
I'd feel silly admitting to believing in stuff like that. Do you think people are really being serious saying that this is what they believe?
Are you asking for volunteers?Some questions would get me my face slapped for sure.
I'd feel silly admitting to believing in stuff like that. Do you think people are really being serious saying that this is what they believe?
Let's see, there is Tertullian, Origen, Clement of Alexandria, Cyril of Jerusalem, Helvidius, Africanus, and Hegesipius. VS the gnostic PoJ.
Of course it didn't since the actual Sacred Tradition is the preseving of Her Virginity, not the identity of His Brothers.Sacred Tradition didn't appear to work in the PoJ example.
Your virginity, or lack thereof, is of absolutely no interest to me.Are you asking for volunteers?
At least it is scriptural. It is not like we have to go fishing outside of scripture to believe everything that any Tom Dick and Harry says.People will say "You believe someone walked on water...? How silly!"
That's no small reliefYour virginity, or lack thereof, is of absolutely no interest to me.
I assure you, you would be the last person I would ask about the state of your hymen.
At least it is scriptural. It is not like we have to go fishing outside of scripture to believe everything that any Tom Dick and Harry says.
Oh no. I think that is more like a normal Catholic experience. A big part of the experience is just being there, showing up and being a part of the group.I didnt hear many stories, I am the wrong person to ask there Solomon, My parents werent quite so open to talk about "the details". As you said, could get me slapped just asking
But honestly, I had always believed she conceived as a virgin (thats it) and I dont recall any bigger deal was made of intact hymen's and all of that. Not that I cared either, it was enough (and very simply) for me to believe she was not all this stuff I see on this board. But I understand why it might have come about, probrobly because of all this overthetop Mary stuff is going on (to me anyway).
My family was sorta like pew sitters though, you know the kind that stand at the right time, say what you say at the right time, sit, kneel, cross yourself, beyond that they were never into the scriptures, so there really wasnt theology talk, save with my aunt, who was a nun, but that come after she left the convent not before.
I wasnt much help was I?
You've already done that to get Scripture. Don't kid yourself.At least it is scriptural. It is not like we have to go fishing outside of scripture to believe everything that any Tom Dick and Harry says.
....Namaste......That's no small relief
I have no absolutely idea either.Which Tom, Dick or, Harry came up with the idea that Mary wasn't a virgin?
Why not?
She's referred to as "The Virgin" by them, not "She of the Virgin Birth"
So when she explained the events and said she was a virgin they decided to call her 'the virgin' even though it relates to something that happened earlier?
And yet that's how they referred to her - even if one believes she isn't ever a virgin, she's still referred to as 'the virgin' so regardless of which case is correct that's what she's called.
If you bring up a document that's puported to be written to support EV, you'll be talking about EV... That's inescapable.Since the PoJ is completely useless, the next source seems to be Eusebius of Rome for the EV idea. Probably associated with vestal virgins.
But again, this is not about that.
Are you asking for volunteers?
People will say "You believe someone walked on water...? How silly!"
I glad am that of
Origen - I need the quote
Clement- defended Her perpetual virginity which was explained to you 10 times yesterday.
Cyril- we can exclude since it's your forced and bias interpretation into the text.
Helvidius - ripped apart by Jerome and appeared quite ignorant when it came to the writings of others. Why you included a nobody I've no idea.
Africanus - Need to know who this was and his quote.
Hegesipius- Your interpretation again.
Of course it didn't since the actual Sacred Tradition is the preseving of Her Virginity, not the identity of His Brothers.
Not about EV folks.
Where in the PofJ does it say that Mary was ever virgin, even that she did not have other children?Of course it is.
That's your takeaway?
Okay, born in a place where there's a manger. Maybe a stable. But where in a desert would a cave be? Underground?
Anyway, the PoJ tradition contradicts scripture.
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