Proposition 8 overturned in California

SithDoughnut said:

So God allowed this law to be overturned? He must support gay marriage then.

Good for Him.

Click to expand...

He allows for women to murder babies.
He allows for women to be raped.
He allows for priests to molest little boys.
He allows for folks to die a slow, painful death at the hands of AIDS
He allows for a gay men to be taken into fields and hung up to die.

So he must "support" all that stuff too.

Zaac said:

God's will is consistent with God's word. He ALLOWs a lot of stuff that is not according to His will, thus sin.

So yes the judge in California did what he did because God ALLOWED him to do it. God will be glorified even in this man's opening the door to define marriage other than how God defines it.

Click to expand...

Actually this is case of God saying one thing and Doing another. We can judge by his actions just fine. God wants Gay marriage, by your own admittance that anything that happens is Gods will. Its a very problematic view as you can see.

Zaac said:

He allows for women to murder babies.
He allows for women to be raped.
He allows for priests to molest little boys.
He allows for folks to die a slow, painful death at the hands of AIDS
He allows for a gay men to be taken into fields and hung up to die.

So he must "support" all that stuff too.

Click to expand...

So it would seem. care to revise your statement about Gods will?

Gishin said:

So when allows things you like it's glorious, but when he allows things you don't like it's only to highlight how glorious it was when he allowed other things?

Click to expand...

In other words, the conservative view is always right, everyone else is wrong - no matter the issue.

Zaac said:

Can someone point me to the Constitutional law that says that some people can take other people's money because they think they have too much and things should be more equal?

Oh wait, Congress doesn't have to follow the law.

Click to expand...

Actually it took a Constitutional Amendment (the 16th) to allow Congress to do that. They do have to follow the law. (The big bad Supreme Court is looking over their shoulder and they can't have any "bad-boy" fun.

Equality in the United States is a pipe dream of liberal politicians to keep themselves in power.

11The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me. Matthew 26:11

Click to expand...

Jase said:

Maybe God disagrees with your interpretation of the Bible, and is disgraced by the Christians trying to treat his gay children like 2nd class citizens.

Have you ever considered that you might be wrong Zaac?

Click to expand...

Zaac is grounded in faith.

HerbieHeadley said:

Zaac is grounded in faith.

Click to expand...

Faith is to believe something you would normally be unsureof.

Zaac said:

He allows for women to murder babies.
He allows for women to be raped.
He allows for priests to molest little boys.
He allows for folks to die a slow, painful death at the hands of AIDS
He allows for a gay men to be taken into fields and hung up to die.

So he must "support" all that stuff too.

Click to expand...

Apparently so. If you have the power to stop something and you don't, then you're supporting it, or at the very least you don't care.

Romans 1


1Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
2(Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
3Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
5By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
6Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
7To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
8First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
9For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
10Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.
11For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
12That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
13Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
14I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
15So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

MoonLancer said:

Faith is to believe something you would normally be unsureof.

Click to expand...

You do not understand.

Gishin said:

I don't have to. Burden of proof is on you. Prove he exists or I can reasonably assume he doesn't.

Click to expand...

Then you reasonably assume He doesn't. It won't wash as an excuse .when you're standing before Him in judgment. But it is what it is.

HerbieHeadley said:

Zaac is grounded in faith.

Click to expand...

Faith is by definition not grounded by evidence or reality.

Zaac said:

Then you reasonably assume He doesn't. It won't wash as an excuse .when you're standing before Him in judgment. But it is what it is.

Click to expand...

Then God is vindictive and unfair and I wouldn't want to follow him anyway.

MoonLancer said:

Actually this is case of God saying one thing and Doing another. We can judge by his actions just fine. God wants Gay marriage, by your own admittance that anything that happens is Gods will. Its a very problematic view as you can see.

Click to expand...

Only if you're reading what you want to read instead of what was written.

You didn't see anywhere that I wrote that anything that happens is God's will. I wrote just the opposite. There is a difference between allowing stuff to happen and it being His will.

So it would seem. care to revise your statement about Gods will?

Click to expand...

My statement is fine as is. YOU just need to learn how to read.

SithDoughnut said:

Apparently so. If you have the power to stop something and you don't, then you're supporting it.

Click to expand...

Well noone ever said that atheists were supposed to understand the nature of God in whom they claim to not believe. And you just confirm that.

Gishin said:

Then God is vindictive and unfair and I wouldn't want to follow him anyway.

Click to expand...

YOU by choice don't have to. Again, when you're standing in front of Him in judgment and He is sitting before you as God ALONE, you will unfortunately see just how much what you want to do at that point matters.

Zaac said:

Well noone ever said that atheists were supposed to understand the nature of God in whom they claim to not believe. And you just confirm that.

Click to expand...

Christians dont understand it any better. God works in mysteries ways and all that nonsense.

Zaac said:

YOU by choice don't have to. Again, when you're standing in front of Him in judgment and He is sitting before you as God ALONE, you will unfortunately see just how much what you want to do at that point matters.

Click to expand...

I don't believe you, so your gloom and doom threats of damnation have no impact.

Zaac said:

Well noone ever said that atheists were supposed to understand the nature of God in whom they claim to not believe. And you just confirm that.

Click to expand...

Ah, then I bow to your unquestionable personal knowledge of God that overrides anything anyone else might think. Your superiority is obvious. Jesus Christ has nothing on you.

Or, you could answer my point instead of making excuses. You said that God allows everything to happen, and if you don't want something to happen, you're not going to allow it to happen. Therefore God is fine with proposition 8 being overturned.

Skaloop said:

Ah. Well, that may be addressed elsewhere in his decisions, I'm not sure (nor am I currently inclined to try to find it).

Click to expand...

Fair enough. I actually plan to sit down and read the entire thing. I got a 14 hour plane ride Saturday that would be just perfect for that...

But I assume, based on other things I have seen on the matter, that it's stuff like loving another person, desiring romantic companionship and commitment (and public declaration of same), forming a family unit, stuff like that.

Now of course, those aren't necessarily present in all marriages, but those are some of the reasons people give for getting married, and homosexuals share those characteristics. I'm sure there are others I can't think of at the moment.

Click to expand...

I'll be interested in if he actually list them or not, though my real interest is going to be in what the Supreme court does with this, or to be more exact, the entirety of their reasoning for allowing homosexual marriage. I would just be down right shocked if they did not end up agreeing with this judge in conclusion.