Proposed Multi-denominational merger - Wales

[seeking_perfection]

Yr Eglwys yng Nghymru | The Church in Wales

Read this article today about the Anglican 'Church in Wales' and a proposed merger. I would say that some kind of real unity is good but that from the scant detail provided, it sounds more like Anglicans are required to give up their theology on the episcopate and ordination of priests in general.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Adam Warlock]

If that is really what they are doing, Anglicans can't go along with it. I've always liked real ecumenism. I've never liked pseudo-ecumenical movements which say "we all believe the same things, differences don't matter, and I decide which of your distinctives you are allowed to keep." If this is indeed an effort at bridging gaps and renewing bonds, that is wonderful. But if it becomes "you don't get to have your ordination theology anymore because some non-Anglicans don't like it," the Anglicans should have no part of it. Our ecclesiology and sacramentology differ from theirs in substantial ways. Hopefully that's not what's being recommended here, but our U.K. members would know much, much more about it than I.

 

[Rurik]

It seems alot like the Uniting Church in Australia down to the list of those involved. Even though the Anglican Church did not end up being part of uification it was a close thing in some places.

 

[Albion]

Yr Eglwys yng Nghymru | The Church in Wales

Read this article today about the Anglican 'Church in Wales' and a proposed merger. I would say that some kind of real unity is good but that from the scant detail provided, it sounds more like Anglicans are required to give up their theology on the episcopate and ordination of priests in general.

What are your thoughts?

They gave it up in India and are satisfied with the result, so I don't doubt that they'll do it in Wales.

 

[seekingsister]

I'd love to know what Rowan Williams thinks of this!

Would this mean that a United Church in Wales would never be able to submit a candidate for ABC anymore? Would it still be part of the Anglican Communion?

 

[MKJ]

Yes, I was going to mention
India as well.

Quite honestly I think that is the way Anglican theology is going. Most Anglicans really don't give a rat's buttocks about the episcopate or think the priesthood is anything significant anyway, their liturgies and music are now virtually identical to other generic Christian groups, and there is very little that is distinctive in many Anglican parishes.

 

[Adam Warlock]

Wow! Do you really think that's true of most?

 

[seekingsister]

Wow! Do you really think that's true of most?

Not for me! I was raised in a non denominational church based on man-made leadership and hierarchy - it was a mess.

Anglican clergy (and the training and history that come along with it) are a blessing to the church.

 

[MKJ]

Wow! Do you really think that's true of most?

I'd say that probably half of Anglican parishes (and I'm using half a little loosely here) are fairly generic. Many in style and many in theology. I think within all but a few, large portions of the laity are sort of generic Christians.

This is in North America and the UK. I wouldn't be suprised if Australia was in a similar position.

They are visibly different than the traditions that come out of the radical reformation, but increasingly indistinguishable from liberal Lutherans, Methodists, the United Church of Canada (there is something similar in the US, they are an amalgamation of Methodists, Presbyterians and Congregationalists, somewhat liturgical and entirely inoffensive. Rather like a sort of religious elevator music.)

They all tend to wear similar vestments. They all have very similar liturgies (which also have a family resemblance to the Catholic OF). They often sing the same bad contemporary Christian music. In my uncle's words, they are usually "not against anything but bottled water".

 

[Albion]

I'd say that probably half of Anglican parishes (and I'm using half a little loosely here) are fairly generic. Many in style and many in theology. I think within all but a few, large portions of the laity are sort of generic Christians.

This is in North America and the UK. I wouldn't be suprised if Australia was in a similar position.

They are visibly different than the traditions that come out of the radical reformation, but increasingly indistinguishable from liberal Lutherans, Methodists, the United Church of Canada (there is something similar in the US, they are an amalgamation of Methodists, Presbyterians and Congregationalists, somewhat liturgical and entirely inoffensive. Rather like a sort of religious elevator music.)

They all tend to wear similar vestments.

Ah, now you're arrived at the most prized, most cherished, and non-negoiable element in the entire 'ecumenism' business!

 

[MKJ]

Ah, now you're arrived at the most prized, most cherished, and non-negoiable element in the entire 'ecumenism' business!

Which bit? Thevestments, bad music, or the anti-bottled water display?

 

[Albion]

Which bit? Thevestments, bad music, or the anti-bottled water display?

I was referring to the appeal of vestments, but I am giving some thought to the sacred elevator music now, too.

 

[MKJ]

I was referring to the appeal of vestments, but I am giving some thought to the sacred elevator music now, too.

Polyester vestments and liturgical elevator music - woo hoo!

 

[Adam Warlock]

Polyester vestments and liturgical elevator music - woo hoo!