Proof the Earth is Flat

Phil G said:

Well they didn't and you refused to engage on their content.

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I did clearly say I wouldn't on that thread, several times. It's not my fault I kept my word and others didn't like it.

SeventyOne said:

Sorry, I won't be accepting a claim of condensation from any of you ballers how constantly come on here and call flat-earthers stupid at every turn available, all the while not taking any time to understand what they are arguing against.

If you want to tow that hypocritical line, feel free.

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I don't really care if you accept it or not. Your comments reveal your condescension.

SeventyOne said:

I did clearly say I wouldn't on that thread, several times. It's not my fault I kept my word and others didn't like it.

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Anyone who posts videos and then refuses to comment on their content is not taking responsibility for their posts.

SeventyOne said:

As long as they keep approaching me in a condescending manner concerning the truth of flat earth (it is, by the way), they will receive the same in kind, until the day they repent of their foolishness.

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Please do me a favor and don't tell anyone you're a Christian. I also hope that you're not a father, or if you are a father, I hope you're a hypocrite and are not teaching your children to emulate this attitude.

Observation a main point stressed by globe earth people.

Flat Earth observes these facts based on the Bible's witness.
The sun, moon and stars moving over the earth.
The sun, moon and stars are created lights.
The sun is the sun and not a star, that stars are lights and not suns.
That the moon is a created light giving off its own light.
The sun, moon and stars are place in the raqia above the earth, the same place that birds fly across the face of.
The sun, moon and stars have their own glory.
That planets are actually stars of light (the Bible never states God created planets)

Other observational facts
A persons vision on the ground is limited due to the working of perspective. All objects as they move away form an observer travel closer to the observers vanishing point eventually going out of site. The lower or closer to the ground the object is, the closer the vanishing point is to the observer. Example a car seen on a straight flat road will reach the vanishing point closer than an air plane in the sky.

d taylor said:

the moon is a created light giving off its own light.

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Refresh my memory on HOW it is precisely that the moon gives off its own light?

d taylor said:

Observation a main point stressed by globe earth people.

Flat Earth observes these facts based on the Bible's witness.
The sun, moon and stars moving over the earth.
The sun, moon and stars are created lights.
The sun is the sun and not a star, that stars are lights and not suns.
That the moon is a created light giving off its own light.
The sun, moon and stars are place in the raqia above the earth, the same place that birds fly across the face of.
The sun, moon and stars have their own glory.
That planets are actually stars of light (the Bible never states God created planets)

Other observational facts
A persons vision on the ground is limited due to the working of perspective. All objects as they move away form an observer travel closer to the observers vanishing point eventually going out of site. The lower or closer to the ground the object is, the closer the vanishing point is to the observer. Example a car seen on a straight flat road will reach the vanishing point closer than an air plane in the sky.

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This does not match the evidence and is only a particular interpretation of the Scriptures. The Bible says none of those things in a clear definitive manner. God uses obvious descriptive terminology in His word to describe, not explain, His creation. The Bible is not a science manual and if the physical evidence contradicts the literal interpretation of the descriptive terminology in the Bible, then it is obvious the literal interpretation is wrong.

I have yet to see any convincing physical evidence that confirms your interpretation of the Scriptures. Any evidence for a flat earth that I have seen has either been manipulated or ignores other evidence which contradicts it.

Flat earth, trying to, at least get people to question what they have been told.

d taylor said:

Flat earth, trying to, at least get people to question what they have been told.

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Well, I suppose that’s one way to try and discredit Christianity to people....

d taylor said:

Flat earth, trying to, at least get people to question what they have been told.

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That's not going to get people to question a spherical earth. It's not about what they've been told but what they know from clear evidence. You may as well claim that vehicle is really a bicycle and the item of clothing is really the cow that jumped over the moon. That's how much sense what's written on them make.

d taylor said:

Observation a main point stressed by globe earth people.

Flat Earth observes these facts based on the Bible's witness.
The sun, moon and stars moving over the earth.
The sun, moon and stars are created lights.
The sun is the sun and not a star, that stars are lights and not suns.
That the moon is a created light giving off its own light.
The sun, moon and stars are place in the raqia above the earth, the same place that birds fly across the face of.
The sun, moon and stars have their own glory.
That planets are actually stars of light (the Bible never states God created planets)

Other observational facts
A persons vision on the ground is limited due to the working of perspective. All objects as they move away form an observer travel closer to the observers vanishing point eventually going out of site. The lower or closer to the ground the object is, the closer the vanishing point is to the observer. Example a car seen on a straight flat road will reach the vanishing point closer than an air plane in the sky.

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I’m going to take two of your statements that you claim are facts based on the Bible’s witness: The sun, moon and stars are created lights and that the moon is a created light giving off its own light. And I’m going to focus on Genesis 1:16:

And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

‘God made’ must be taken literally if God is creator. But nowhere in this verse (or any other verse) does it say or imply that the sun, moon and stars are all self-luminous. There are problems with this verse if it is to be taken beyond its context of ‘God made’ them with the sun brighter than the moon (the ‘greater’ and ‘lesser’ lights). The moon does not ‘rule’ the night like the sun ‘rules’ the day even though the verse does not indicate any differences to that ‘ruling’ apart from their brightness.

There are obvious differences besides their brightness. The sun’s light is what separates day and night on earth. The moon’s does not. The moon is sometimes visible during the day, the sun is never visible at night (otherwise it would be day). The moon is not always in the sky at night but the sun is always in the sky during the day. This indicates that the Bible does not explain or qualify the obvious differences in the sun’s ‘ruling’ and the moon’s. There is no indication that both need to be self-luminous.

Furthermore, God does not explain moon phases in the Bible. Yet these obviously happen and are easily explained by the moon being lit from an external source but are inexplicable (in any rational way) if the moon is self-luminous.

Observing the moon through a telescope reveals shadows of craters and ridges on the moon’s surface, especially when the moon is less than full. Again these are easily explained by the moon being lit by an external light source and not being self-luminous.

God does not explain in His Word why some ‘stars’ (the planets) also exhibit phases (which can be easily seen through a telescope) and others do not. He does not indicate that He created ‘planets’ but neither does He say that these ‘stars’ which exhibit phases (not to mention other objects such as comets, asteroids and now man-made satellites) have patterns of ‘movement’ completely different to the others.

Not even 1 Corinthians 15:41 gives any hint that sun, moon and stars are all self-luminous:

There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

All have a different ‘glory’ but to alter that verse to suggest all are self-luminous (as some flat earthers do) is beyond the verse (and biblical) context.

God says that he made the sun, moon and stars but He does not define what these are nor how they give light, only that they do. To try to claim that the moon is self-luminous and there are no planets because they are not mentioned in the Bible is to go way beyond the context of what God has revealed in His Word. It is trying to claim that God said something He didn’t say.

In the study of the sky, scientists and others have tried to explain the evidence as it is. This evidence is open to any to assess. That doesn’t mean people have to accept what they say. Evolution for example runs into certain conflicts with the Bible but that is a separate issue for a separate debate because it delves into how these objects exist, not what they are. In terms of whether scientists’ explanations of the physical properties of the sun, moon and stars are right or wrong, the Bible cannot and must not be used to contradict them. Again, God does not explain what they are or how they shine in His Word, just that He made them.

Now if you can find verses which define the moon as ‘giving its own light’, rather than an obscure interpretation of verses, I would love to see them.

Isaiah 13:10, Ezekiel 32:7, Mark 13:24, Matthew 24:29

d taylor said:

Isaiah 13:10, Ezekiel 32:7, Mark 13:24, Matthew 24:29

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Isaiah 13:10:

For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

This is clearly a future supernatural event, not the current natural way of things

Ezekiel 32:7:

And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.

Again, another reference to a future supernatural event outside of the current natural way of things.

Mark 13:24:

But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light

Yet another reference to a future supernatural event outside of the current natural way of things.

Matthew 24:29:

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken

And another reference to a future supernatural event outside the current natural order of things.

None of the references define or imply the moon to be self-luminous, only that the creator God will cause it to not give its light (whether reflected or not) when it should. You are trying to use something which God will do in the future to define the moon's current source of light. But all it implies is that the moon currently gives light, not how it does it.

And as before, the physical evidence (such as moon phases, shadows of craters etc and eclipses) do not concur with your interpretation. They point to the opposite.

Phil G said:

Isaiah 13:10:

For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

This is clearly a future supernatural event, not the current natural way of things

Ezekiel 32:7:

And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.

Again, another reference to a future supernatural event outside of the current natural way of things.

Mark 13:24:

But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light

Yet another reference to a future supernatural event outside of the current natural way of things.

Matthew 24:29:

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken

And another reference to a future supernatural event outside the current natural order of things.

None of the references define or imply the moon to be self-luminous, only that the creator God will cause it to not give its light (whether reflected or not) when it should. You are trying to use something which God will do in the future to define the moon's current source of light. But all it implies is that the moon currently gives light, not how it does it.

And as before, the physical evidence (such as moon phases, shadows of craters etc and eclipses) do not concur with your interpretation. They point to the opposite.

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Whatever you believe, it has been proven, and you can even do this yourself with a simple laser thermometer ....

Measure the temperature of something in moon shade and then measure the temperature in moon light.

This works best on a full moon.

It has been shown, time and time again, by many people.. Moonlight... is cooler (not more "hip" or more "fly") But, the temperature of moonlight, or more precisely, the temperature of an object in moonlight will drop. Moon shade.. will be warmer than moonlight.


This fact was denied at first.. I can remember people totally ridiculing others for stating such a thing.

Well, now, as is usually the case.. there are "armchair" scientists and others who are trying to explain all kinds of reasons for this simple observation...

Anything and everything to avoid saying that something is really odd about moon light... Even to the extend that maybe the bible is right.. And.. the moon is a light of it's own.

JacksBratt said:

Whatever you believe, it has been proven, and you can even do this yourself with a simple laser thermometer ....

Measure the temperature of something in moon shade and then measure the temperature in moon light.

This works best on a full moon.

It has been shown, time and time again, by many people.. Moonlight... is cooler (not more "hip" or more "fly") But, the temperature of moonlight, or more precisely, the temperature of an object in moonlight will drop. Moon shade.. will be warmer than moonlight.


This fact was denied at first.. I can remember people totally ridiculing others for stating such a thing.

Well, now, as is usually the case.. there are "armchair" scientists and others who are trying to explain all kinds of reasons for this simple observation...

Anything and everything to avoid saying that something is really odd about moon light... Even to the extend that maybe the bible is right.. And.. the moon is a light of it's own.

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Patently false:

https://www.physicscentral.com/buzz/blog/index.cfm?postid=1590436706491009951

But even even this was true, it proves nothing about the moon being self-luminous. This does not explain shadows, moon phase or eclipses. As usual flat earthers try to explain one thing while ignoring another. And by the way, the Bible is always 'right' but people's interpretation of God's Word is often out of context, saying things that God does not say.

JacksBratt said:

Well, now, as is usually the case.. there are "armchair" scientists and others who are trying to explain all kinds of reasons for this simple observation...

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Can you provide a paper or something credible from someone you would consider a real scientist who believes the moon puts off cooler light? Certainly you’re not taking the word of “armchair” FE scientists in this belief.

Phil G said:

Patently false:

https://www.physicscentral.com/buzz/blog/index.cfm?postid=1590436706491009951

But even even this was true, it proves nothing about the moon being self-luminous. This does not explain shadows, moon phase or eclipses. As usual flat earthers try to explain one thing while ignoring another. And by the way, the Bible is always 'right' but people's interpretation of God's Word is often out of context, saying things that God does not say.

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Thank you for proving my point.

You post a commentary given by someone that didn't even do the experiment themselves... Just explains that it is wrong, calls the guy a "yokel" and denies the results.

In the comment section of this commentary.. one person posts something very true..

"But science—GOOD science—is the struggle against that instinct to cling to the dream as it dissolves around you, because as Randall Munroe said, "You don't use science to show that you're right. You use science to become right."


I also like this:


Anonymous said...

What a waste of time reading this article.
We learn by observation. But your observations you made are not valid. Let me who is sitting behind a desk tell you what you are seeing.


Deny it all you want... "Splain" away what you cannot understand with drivel and babble.... but... the facts is moonlight is cold.

SPF said:

Can you provide a paper or something credible from someone you would consider a real scientist who believes the moon puts off cooler light? Certainly you’re not taking the word of “armchair” FE scientists in this belief.

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LOL.... Ya... let's not believe what many people are doing.... because.. nobody has put up the money to test it...

You actually think that someone is going to fund a study to see if moonlight is cold? Seriously?


Even if they did.. there is no way it would be published.... How do you go about dealing with that Pandora's box of "what the heck do we say"?

Nope... it's better to just get some dude with letters behind his name, to tell everyone that it cannot be true....

A paper? LOL

JacksBratt said:

Thank you for proving my point.

You post a commentary given by someone that didn't even do the experiment themselves... Just explains that it is wrong, calls the guy a "yokel" and denies the results.

In the comment section of this commentary.. one person posts something very true..

"But science—GOOD science—is the struggle against that instinct to cling to the dream as it dissolves around you, because as Randall Munroe said, "You don't use science to show that you're right. You use science to become right."


I also like this:


Anonymous said...

What a waste of time reading this article.
We learn by observation. But your observations you made are not valid. Let me who is sitting behind a desk tell you what you are seeing.


Deny it all you want... "Splain" away what you cannot understand with drivel and babble.... but... the facts is moonlight is cold.

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Again a deflection. Stick to the topic. The Bible says nothing about the moon being self-luminous. The physical evidence indicates that it isn't. There's nothing 'magical' about moonlight or its properties.

A photo of the moon and an impressions on the surface of the moon, giving off the light that the moon emits.

Interesting that other impressions , near this one emitting light are not lit up.



These two small black lines i placed on this moon show the ray of light emitting from these impressions





So when in the Bible Genesis 1:16 states that God created two great lights. Looking at this picture science based christians are saying the Bible is saying in Genesis 1:16 that those are both created lights. Now that is what is called Biblical interpretation based on science, and not letting the Bible interpret itself.