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1) Without a context, anything is meaningless. Or severely limited in its meaning, vague.
2) The use of prooftexts often seems to me to be almost treating the Bible like a series of magical formulae. It's almost pagan in its veneration of the text.
3) I'm not even sure that the term "universal truth" has any meaning to the Biblical writers, who mainly deal in specific situations: they tell stories set in the real world even when, as in the parables or certain books like Job, they were using fictional devices.
4) In quoting a passage, many Christians assume that the story is already known by the reader/listener so that they'll immediately "get it." But even a lot of Christians are not always aware of the full context, and many non-Christians nowadays don't ever pick up a Bible. So don't assume that one Bible verse is somehow going to clinch an arguement, rather than make someone puzzled.
5) Try and read a whole book of the Bible rather than just a few verses. There's usually an argument or the thread of a story that unfolds over the reading of it (St Paul's epistles, for instance, are essentially arguments.) Verses quoted out of context mean you miss the argument, and you can end up down some very strange alleys.
Where does the Holy Spirit come in? Why, through the whole process of thinking and reasoning about the scriptures. Where else?
The Holy Spirit tends to work through fallible human beings, who sometimes get things wrong or mistake the Holy Spirit for their own enthusiasm. Very rarely, if at all, through wham bam thank you ma'am "revelations".
Seriously...are you a Gnostic? :oI looked on the web and found an example and study of what your saying TimRout here ........
Kenosis - Christ "emptied Himself" (Philippians 2:7)
as i briefly went though it , i wondered , if we see this so literal we are so limited [bound ]
but Spiritually speaking we can go far beyond the letter that kills
I know the Spirit makes alivewe can only see what Gods Light [knowledge] sheds abroad upon our hearts to see though and Jesus Christ is the Way to Life ........
unless the single eye of [perciving ] be dakness /knowledge
Matt6 ;22"(AB)The eye is the lamp of the body; so then if your eye is clear, your whole body will be full of light.
23"But if (AC)your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light/ knowledge that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness! there is many a warning of perverting/Twisting
the Truthlike a serpent
peace C
Hi Icy Crusader ,
Here Jesus done it quoting Isaiah,weaving/tie together in the prophecy ,knowing from John in Rev the testimony /witness of Jesus Christ IS The Spirit of Prophecy
seeing this is done to show us the usage of events and when its applied
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted/turned , and I should heal them.
than went on to explain
I have noticed that Paul does this often too, just quoting a couple of scriptures and than goes on to explain them with more enlightenment /understanding revealing many mysteries
such as Union of man /woman and Christ /Church etc .
and to actually understand what context means i had to look it up and it helps to know clearly what it means ,and see it as helpful
context - Definitions from Dictionary.com
I think the difference is Interpreting
the tying them /connecting in the same purpose =make Strait strait - Definitions from Dictionary.com , strict meaning
verses twisting them to make it say what ever they want it to saycrooked for gain if it be for profit ,greedy gain Paul spoke of men stealing and I believe this is what he was talking about here as far a religion goes ...
Deu 24:7 If a man be found stealing any of his brethren of the children of Israel, and maketh merchandise of him, or selleth him; then that thief shall die; and thou shalt put evil away from among you.
1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
making them slaves to their teaching
God bless C
Seriously...are you a Gnostic? :o
Thank you for pointing these out, but I am aware of the instances in which previous scripture is quoted. I never disagreed or said quoting scripture is wrong, just that I'm wary of it. I want to be sure I am using it in context and for it's intended purpose so that later on I don't regret informing a friend incorrectly on matters of the Bible. The overabundance of Bible verses today is what scares me. The way people paste them on every item you can find in a Christian bookstore, or randomly in the middle of a book, or just quoted for the purpose of edification. I believe it endorses the idea that our beliefs are based on singular verses. But, once again, thank you for those verses. I actually used them for my personal morning devotional
Thanks Artybloke ,
I agree the Wisdom of God and not the wisdom of men ,
It's not so either/or. The Holy Spirit is as capable of using "human wisdom" to the glory of Christ, as of imparting some special "wisdom." In fact, I'm very suspicious of people who claim to have some special "wisdom" or some new way of reading the Bible that bypasses the rational processes. That doesn't mean that new insight can't be found as we find out more about the context of the text and our own contexts; but it isn't separate from the normal thinking processes. After all, God did give us a mind to think with.
That may well be. But one thing I'm sure of: even though the human authors and their contemporary audiences may not have understood them that way, their Inspirer did.And the thing, by the way, about the OT quotes in the NT: they were in some sense reading into the text things that were not there in the original. But there is usually a history of interpretation from the Jewish tradition behind them. Thus, with the messianic "prophecies": they were not originally intended to prophesy Christ, because it would have been meaningless to the original audience, and as the prophets were proclaiming the message of God's justice on Isreal, it would have been pointless. However, once the original context was no longer relevant, they would still have a meaning, and this became focused narrower and narrower: a prophecy originally intended for the whole nation of Isreal became focused on the "remnant" after the Exile, and then onto the figure of the Messiah, and then by Christians (but not by Jews generally) it became focused on Christ.
It wasn't, in other words, some magical process. It was the inevitable process of making the prophets relevant to the present. It's no different from what happens when people reinterpret Shakespeare for the present age.
It's not so either/or. The Holy Spirit is as capable of using "human wisdom" to the glory of Christ, as of imparting some special "wisdom." In fact, I'm very suspicious of people who claim to have some special "wisdom" or some new way of reading the Bible that bypasses the rational processes. That doesn't mean that new insight can't be found as we find out more about the context of the text and our own contexts; but it isn't separate from the normal thinking processes. After all, God did give us a mind to think with.
And the thing, by the way, about the OT quotes in the NT: they were in some sense reading into the text things that were not there in the original. But there is usually a history of interpretation from the Jewish tradition behind them. Thus, with the messianic "prophecies": they were not originally intended to prophesy Christ, because it would have been meaningless to the original audience, and as the prophets were proclaiming the message of God's justice on Isreal, it would have been pointless. However, once the original context was no longer relevant, they would still have a meaning, and this became focused narrower and narrower: a prophecy originally intended for the whole nation of Isreal became focused on the "remnant" after the Exile, and then onto the figure of the Messiah, and then by Christians (but not by Jews generally) it became focused on Christ.
It wasn't, in other words, some magical process. It was the inevitable process of making the prophets relevant to the present. It's no different from what happens when people reinterpret Shakespeare for the present age.
unless the single eye of [perciving ] be dakness /knowledge
Matt6 ;22"(AB)The eye is the lamp of the body; so then if your eye is clear, your whole body will be full of light.
23"But if (AC)your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light/ knowledge that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness! there is many a warning of perverting/Twisting
well thank you Chris !Actually this passage has to do with greed and generosity and the timeless truth of it should deal with that topic.
Blessings,
Chris
and i was just going by the scriptures and how many times they speak against this type of reasoning /mindset
But they don't. None of them. They don't argue against the use of the mind; or of reasoning. They do argue against false reasoning - and there's as much of that among Christians as there is any where else (witness the number of liars and deluded fools among the creationists, the millenialists & chiliasts of the modern church & the preachers of the prosperity gospel.)
"Come let us reason together..." is not an excuse to put your mind in neutral and follow whatever spiritual-sounding nonsense comes out of the mouth of your favourite preacher, who can rip a few verses out of context and turn them into mincemeat to feed to his deluded congregation.
But they don't. None of them. They don't argue against the use of the mind; or of reasoning. They do argue against false reasoning - and there's as much of that among Christians as there is any where else (witness the number of liars and deluded fools among the creationists, the millenialists & chiliasts of the modern church & the preachers of the prosperity gospel.)
"Come let us reason together..." is not an excuse to put your mind in neutral and follow whatever spiritual-sounding nonsense comes out of the mouth of your favourite preacher, who can rip a few verses out of context and turn them into mincemeat to feed to his deluded congregation.
A very good example of being "double-minded" would be the refusal to live in the real world of the average creationist. It takes a great deal of cognitive dissonance to believe that god created the world in six days 6000 years ago when the whole of God's revelation of Himself through the earth shows it to have been created 4.5 billion years ago.
That is a very good example of "vain thinking."
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