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Proof of "flat" earth.

Delphiki

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http://i.imgur.com/hTHeC.jpg

Someone posted the above image on another website, and I found it quite interesting for several reasons.

I (and others here) have made the argument on occasion that creationism is similar to the belief that the earth was flat in several ways.

For one, most of us, including creationists, dismiss the idea of the earth being flat as ridiculous. There's overwhelming evidence that it's nearly spherical (slightly wider along the equator, but barely noticeable with the naked eye, if at all). The Theory of Evolution, having just about every bit as much evidence, however, is still debated by bible literalists and other creationists. We can see in the image, dated 1893, that people were still taking the idea of a flat earth well into the modern era, and at least up until the dawn of modern technology.

We can also see, that despite the protests of many creationists, the idea of a flat earth was perpetuated by religious ideals. The image even provides a number of bible quotes which are meant to refute the idea of a spherical earth.

Keep in mind, humanity knew the earth was round at least as early as 3rd century BCE. Eratosthenes was able to easily demonstrate the earth was round by showing the shadows of objects were longer, at the same time of day, the further you went north, than the same objects that were further south, and directly under the sun. Yet, a round earth being common knowledge at the turn of the common era still didn't prevent religious influence from spreading the flat-earth idea throughout the world -- sometimes by force during the middle ages.

The same happens now with the idea that the universe was spontaneously spoken into existence by some invisible, omnipotent, entity some 6000 to 10000 years ago (depending on which creationist you ask). Man was to have been created around the same time out of dust. Some believe this is the infallible truth. Some creationists accept that the evidence completely disproves their story, but that Satan himself planted it. Others simply ignore, willfully misunderstand, or flat out deny that the evidence is evidence at all. We can see the same happening here with the (mostly) flat earth idea.

Another similarity is the way that this image represents a point where the flat earth believers conceded to science, or adapted their idea to compensate for admitting some scientific discoveries. As the idea first started out with a completely flat earth. We can see that by the late 19th century, this oscillated torus/bowl-like shape was designed to explain the long periods of day/night at the arctic, and to account for the curvature proved by Eratosthenes (at least for the northern hemisphere.. or inner-hump, I guess?). I suppose nobody noticed how strange it was that it still took far longer to travel from Australia to Greenland, than Australia to South Africa -- I would love to hear what the apologetics were for this.

It's a little unnerving to know that, for roughly 2300 years, there are still people out there that believe in a non-spherical earth, despite all the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. With the understanding of evolution only having dawned in the late 1800's, does this mean that the education of our children will have to remain under threat by the imposition of religious myths well after the year 3000? I really hope not.

It's amusing how creationists are both quick to cry persecution when presented with evidence, but at the same time scoff at the absurdity of a bowl/flat/hollow earth.
 

Split Rock

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http://i.imgur.com/hTHeC.jpg

Someone posted the above image on another website, and I found it quite interesting for several reasons.

I (and others here) have made the argument on occasion that creationism is similar to the belief that the earth was flat in several ways.

For one, most of us, including creationists, dismiss the idea of the earth being flat as ridiculous. There's overwhelming evidence that it's nearly spherical (slightly wider along the equator, but barely noticeable with the naked eye, if at all). The Theory of Evolution, having just about every bit as much evidence, however, is still debated by bible literalists and other creationists. We can see in the image, dated 1893, that people were still taking the idea of a flat earth well into the modern era, and at least up until the dawn of modern technology.

We can also see, that despite the protests of many creationists, the idea of a flat earth was perpetuated by religious ideals. The image even provides a number of bible quotes which are meant to refute the idea of a spherical earth.

Keep in mind, humanity knew the earth was round at least as early as 3rd century BCE. Eratosthenes was able to easily demonstrate the earth was round by showing the shadows of objects were longer, at the same time of day, the further you went north, than the same objects that were further south, and directly under the sun. Yet, a round earth being common knowledge at the turn of the common era still didn't prevent religious influence from spreading the flat-earth idea throughout the world -- sometimes by force during the middle ages.

The same happens now with the idea that the universe was spontaneously spoken into existence by some invisible, omnipotent, entity some 6000 to 10000 years ago (depending on which creationist you ask). Man was to have been created around the same time out of dust. Some believe this is the infallible truth. Some creationists accept that the evidence completely disproves their story, but that Satan himself planted it. Others simply ignore, willfully misunderstand, or flat out deny that the evidence is evidence at all. We can see the same happening here with the (mostly) flat earth idea.

Another similarity is the way that this image represents a point where the flat earth believers conceded to science, or adapted their idea to compensate for admitting some scientific discoveries. As the idea first started out with a completely flat earth. We can see that by the late 19th century, this oscillated torus/bowl-like shape was designed to explain the long periods of day/night at the arctic, and to account for the curvature proved by Eratosthenes (at least for the northern hemisphere.. or inner-hump, I guess?). I suppose nobody noticed how strange it was that it still took far longer to travel from Australia to Greenland, than Australia to South Africa -- I would love to hear what the apologetics were for this.

It's a little unnerving to know that, for roughly 2300 years, there are still people out there that believe in a non-spherical earth, despite all the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. With the understanding of evolution only having dawned in the late 1800's, does this mean that the education of our children will have to remain under threat by the imposition of religious myths well after the year 3000? I really hope not.

It's amusing how creationists are both quick to cry persecution when presented with evidence, but at the same time scoff at the absurdity of a bowl/flat/hollow earth.

That's a fascinating map... I've never seen one like that before! I wonder why the corners are there... I suppose because the bible mentions "four corners," but its hardly necessary for the map.

I'm sure that AVET will call it, "diabolic mimicry."
 
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Fenny the Fox

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I loved the sun and moon mobile and the "Send 25 cents ... " in the lower right hand corner. I wonder how much that is in 2011 dollars?

Assuming nothing but pure inflation (negating cost of living, etc.), as of 2010: roughly $6.
Historical Value of U.S. Dollar (Estimated)

Obviously, that isn't exactly accurate -given other factors-, but that is about all I can do...no economist am I.

Sorry...that had no bearing on the discussion at hand, really...:blush:
 
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singpeace

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1. The Shape of the Earth

"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in," (Isaiah 40:22, NIV).

This may or may not be construed to support the spherical shape of the earth. The horizon is a circle and a circle is flat.

Christopher Columbus wrote in his diary:
“It was the Lord who put it into my mind – I could feel his hand upon me – the fact that it would be possible to sail from here to the Indies … All who heard of my project rejected it with laughter, ridiculing me … There is no question that the inspiration was from the Holy Spirit, because He comforted me with rays of marvelous illumination from the Holy Scriptures… For the execution of the journey to the Indies, I did not make use of intelligence, mathematics, or maps. It is simply the fulfillment of what Isaiah had prophesied.”


Also take a moment to really consider the next verse.. [Emphasis Added]

"He has inscribed a circle on the surface of the waters at the boundary of light and darkness." (Job 26:10)

Job 26:10 clearly refers to the line of demarcation between day and night. No other interpretation is possible. Such a view of the curved horizon at sunrise or sunset can only be seen from extremely high altitudes reached only by military jets and spacecraft.


2. The Earth is Suspended in Nothing

"He spreads out the northern [skies] over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing," (Job. 26:7, NIV).

This is particularly interesting, considering that the cosmology of other cultures at that time did not have the earth suspended in nothing, but rather upon pillars, or people, or animals.


3. Earth’s Rotation on its Axis is Responsible for the Sun’s Rising and Setting.

“Have you commanded the morning since your days began, and caused the dawn to know its place? It is changed (turned) like clay under the seal” (Job 38:12, 14).

Written 4,000 years ago, the picture here is of a vessel of clay being turned or rotated upon the potter’s wheel – an accurate analogy of the earth’s rotation.


4. The Water Cycle

"For he maketh small the drops of water: they pour down rain according to the vapour thereof: Which the clouds do drop and distil upon man abundantly. Also can any understand the spreadings of the clouds, or the noise of his tabernacle?"(Job 36:27-29).

Science later documented the direction of wind currents and wind paths. This was unknown in previous centuries, but Solomon wrote in Ecclesiastes 1:6, “The wind blows to the south and goes round to the north; round and round goes the wind, and on its circuits with wind returns.”


5. Streams in the Ocean

Ecclesiastes 1:7: “All streams run to the sea, but the sea is not full; to the place where the streams flow, there they flow again.”

Matthew Maury (1806-1873), who is known as “the Pathfinder of the Seas,” was the founder of modern oceanography and hydrography. Maury firmly believed in and was inspired by Psalm 8:8, “whatever passes along the paths of the sea.” Maury believed that if the Bible wrote about “paths in the seas” then there must truly be paths in the sea. He dedicated his life to find and document these paths God had mentioned. Maury spent part of his career with the U.S. Navy charting the winds and currents of the Atlantic which were not known before his documentation.


Space and Time

"In the beginning (time) God created (power) the Heaven (space) and the Earth (matter)... And the Spirit of God moved (motion) upon the face of the waters." (Genesis 1:1,3 … written some 3450 years ago).



Universe Expanding

"It is He that . . . stretches out the heavens as a curtain, and spreads them out as a tent to dwell in." (Isaiah 40:22)


Empty Space

"He stretches out the north over empty space; he hangs the earth on nothing." (Job 26:7)


Air has Weight

"To make the weight for the winds; and he weigheth the waters by measure." (Job 28:25)


Galaxy Radio Waves

"When the morning stars sang together..." (Job 38:7)


Atoms

"By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible. "(Hebrews 11:3)

"For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together." (Colossians 1:16-17).


Gravitational Properties

“Can you bind the cluster of the Pleiades, Or loose the belt of Orion?” (Job 38:31).


1st and 2nd Laws of Thermodynamics

First and Second Laws of Thermodynamics:
The 1st Law of Thermodynamics states that matter can be neither created nor destroyed, and that the amount of matter in the universe remains constant. If the First Law is correct, which every scientific measurement ever made has confirmed, then the universe could not have created itself, it must have been created in the past, no further creating must be going on, and no loss of creation is occurring. The Bible is the only religious book that correctly portrays the First Law by 1) its description in Genesis of a Creator who is no longer creating, and 2) a Creator who is "upholding all things by the word of his power (Hebrews 1:3)".

Genesis 2:1 says (after creation):

"Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them."


The Hebrew word used here is the past definite tense for the verb "finished," indicating an action completed in the past, never again to occur. The creation was "finished" -- once and for all. That is what the First Law of Thermodynamics says. It states that neither matter nor energy can be either created or destroyed. There is no "creation" ongoing today. It is "finished" exactly as the Bible states.

The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, which states that all systems degenerate from order to disorder, was regarded by Albert Einstein to be the premier Law in science. Again the Bible is the only religious book to accurately describe this Law:

"For the heavens will vanish away like smoke, the earth will grow old like a garment..." (Isaiah 51:6),

and also a New Testament rendering:

"You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands. They will perish, but You remain; and they will all grow old like a garment; (Hebrews 1:10-11)
 
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Orogeny

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This map must be for sale somewhere. I need it. Even better, is there a mock-up of this map-complete with sun-moon-north star mobile for sale? I'd give an arm and a leg (not mine, obviously) to get hold of that.

P.S.~ I'd probably think the Earth looked like that if I lived in South Dakota.

P.P.S~ DOMINION OF CANADA lol
 
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freezerman2000

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Landover Baptist Church is just a big Poe site. None of it is real.

But you have to admit..it IS funny...I've got it in my bookmarks for when I need a good bell laugh! (no I do not participate in the forums,I go to the main website)
 
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J

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"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in," (Isaiah 40:22, NIV).

This may or may not be construed to support the spherical shape of the earth. The horizon is a circle and a circle is flat.

At night a guard would circle around a city or a camp site. That is what the word means. It does not quite imply orbit, but close to it.
 
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Certainty

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@ singpeace

The Bible itself definately implies the Earth is flat (for example at Daniel 4:11 or 4:8 in Catholic Bibles) and most of its writers (certainly those of the Old Testament) probably thought so to.

Revelation 7:1
And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)

Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)

These quotes clearly imply that the earth has 4 corners and ends, meaning they believed the earth was flat.



Notice how the Quran has a much better and more accurate view on the earth then the christian Bible.

"It is He who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its orbit with its own motion. (The Noble Quran, 21:33)"
 
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J

Jazer

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Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)

These quotes clearly imply that the earth has 4 corners and ends, meaning they believed the earth was flat.
I do not want to pop your bubble here but earth means the main land as opposed to the sea or water. You should read the 8 rules of Bible interpretation first before you make these wild attempts at it. Although it looks like your intent is to slander God and the Bible. I am not sure why anyone would want to fight against the God who created them and the universe to mock Him. Does not seem very smart to me.
 
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Certainty

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I do not want to pop your bubble here but earth means the main land as opposed to the sea or water. You should read the 8 rules of Bible interpretation first before you make these wild attempts at it.

Yet the person ( a christian ) who made the exact same asumptions based on the bible which he had interpreted with his OWN oppinion is allowed to make assumptions based on his beliefs?


Although it looks like your intent is to slander God and the Bible. I am not sure why anyone would want to fight against the God who created them and the universe to mock Him. Does not seem very smart to me.

My intent is to voice my oppinion, If your diety didn't want me to do this then he would of not given me free will.

I don't believe in God, there is no evidence in MY oppinion that he created me.Therefore I do not fear him.
 
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