Proof against flat earth

[Tayla]

Proof against flat earth

There is a very simple proof against flat earth I've never heard anyone mention.

According to flat earth:

1. The sun is small and close to the earth
   
2. It never goes below the horizon
3. As it gets farther away just before night falls, it gets smaller and smaller just like a freight train traveling away on train tracks which recede to a point on the horizon
4. It gets dark because the sun gets shrouded in the haze
5. At night the sun travels in a half circle along the horizon from west to east

The observations disproving flat earth:

1. The sun does not become a point at the horizon just before night falls
2. The sun drops straight down to the horizon; it doesn't ease up to it at an ever smaller and smaller angle
   
3. You can see the sun being "chopped" as it goes behind the earth; first a small piece, later it is a half circle, and etc.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Then Joshua spoke to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel:

“Sun, Stand Still over Gibeon;
And Moon, in the Valley of Aijalon.”
So The Sun Stood Still,
And The Moon Stopped,
Till the people had revenge
Upon their enemies.

Is this not written in the Book of Jasher? So The Sun Stood Still In The Midst Of Heaven, And Did Not Hasten To Go Down for about a whole day. And there has been no day like that, before it or after it, that the Lord heeded the voice of a man; for the Lord fought for Israel.
• Joshua 10:12-14


/Thread

 

[4x4toy]

 

[Paulos23]

Then Joshua spoke to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel:

“Sun, Stand Still over Gibeon;
And Moon, in the Valley of Aijalon.”
So The Sun Stood Still,
And The Moon Stopped,
Till the people had revenge
Upon their enemies.

Is this not written in the Book of Jasher? So The Sun Stood Still In The Midst Of Heaven, And Did Not Hasten To Go Down for about a whole day. And there has been no day like that, before it or after it, that the Lord heeded the voice of a man; for the Lord fought for Israel.
• Joshua 10:12-14


/Thread

With no other documentation from other civilizations of the era of a day lasting longer, I see no reason to accept that happen.

 

[DogmaHunter]

With no other documentation from other civilizations of the era of a day lasting longer, I see no reason to accept that happen.

Or, you know.... the fact that earth still exist and we are here to talk about it.

Do these people even realise what would have to physically happen for the sun to "stand still in the sky for a day" and what the effect of that would be.


helpful tip: nothing would survive.

 

[Strathos]

Or, you know.... the fact that earth still exist and we are here to talk about it.

Do these people even realise what would have to physically happen for the sun to "stand still in the sky for a day" and what the effect of that would be.


helpful tip: nothing would survive.

Only if you assume that it was a physical alteration of the earth and/or sun's motions.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

With no other documentation from other civilizations of the era of a day lasting longer, I see no reason to accept that happen.

The answer was for the OP who is a Christian.

 

[Paulos23]

The answer was for the OP who is a Christian.

Not speaking for the OP, but not every Christian holds belief in the Bible being literal.

There is no evidence for such an event, nor is this evidence for a flat earth.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

There is no evidence for such an event, nor is this evidence for a flat earth.

The Bible IS The Written Historical Record:

Spoiler

 

[Paulos23]

The Bible IS The Written Historical Record:

Sorry, no. Christians insisting on this is one of many reasons I left.

 

[Tom 1]

With no other documentation from other civilizations of the era of a day lasting longer, I see no reason to accept that happen.

Actually, there are some supporting records -

‘There is apologetic value in ancient legends from various parts of the globe, however, including the following: “It is reported by historians that records of the Chinese during the reign of Emperor Yeo, who lived at the same time as Joshua, report ‘a long day.’ Also, Heroditus, a Greek historian, wrote that an account of ‘a long day’ appears in records of Egyptian priests. Others cite records of Mexicans of the sun standing still for an entire day in a year denoted as ‘Seven Rabits,’ which is the same year in which Joshua defeated the Philistines and conquered Palestine.” (Bible-Science Newsletter, Daily Reading Magazine, Supplement, Vol. VIII, No. 5, May 1978, Caldwell, Idaho.)

Additionally, the historical lore of the Aztecs, Peruvians, and Babylonians speak of a “day of twice natural length.” See Troubled Times: Sun Stood Still; see also Immanuel Velikovsky’s “Worlds in Collision.” If Joshua’s long day (not “missing” day) occurred—and of course I believe that it did—then we would expect its effects to show up in the historical records of other nations, and that is exactly what we find’. (End quote)

As with the flood stories.

Personally, with passages like this I tend to look for the meaning, as in what meaning is the writer trying to convey. There are a lot of reasons to think (e.g Auerbach’s analysis of ancient texts in Mimesis) that the OT writers were concerned with conveying messages rich in meaning, meaning in the sense of actions, consequences, the value of relationship between God and people, people to people etc, and that our more modern interest in the material world was of little or no consequence to their thinking.

 

[4x4toy]

Actually, there are some supporting records -

‘There is apologetic value in ancient legends from various parts of the globe, however, including the following: “It is reported by historians that records of the Chinese during the reign of Emperor Yeo, who lived at the same time as Joshua, report ‘a long day.’ Also, Heroditus, a Greek historian, wrote that an account of ‘a long day’ appears in records of Egyptian priests. Others cite records of Mexicans of the sun standing still for an entire day in a year denoted as ‘Seven Rabits,’ which is the same year in which Joshua defeated the Philistines and conquered Palestine.” (Bible-Science Newsletter, Daily Reading Magazine, Supplement, Vol. VIII, No. 5, May 1978, Caldwell, Idaho.)

Additionally, the historical lore of the Aztecs, Peruvians, and Babylonians speak of a “day of twice natural length.” See Troubled Times: Sun Stood Still; see also Immanuel Velikovsky’s “Worlds in Collision.” If Joshua’s long day (not “missing” day) occurred—and of course I believe that it did—then we would expect its effects to show up in the historical records of other nations, and that is exactly what we find’. (End quote)

As with the flood stories.

My own tendency through with passages like this is that look for the meaning, as in what meaning is the writer trying to convey. There are a lot of reasons to think (e.g Auerbach’s analysis of ancient texts in Mimesis) that the OT writers were concerned with conveying messages rich in meaning, meaning in the sense of actions, consequences, the value of relationship between God and people, people to people etc, and that our more modern interest in the material world was of little or no consequence to their thinking.

Also secular accounts of dark at Jesus death on the cross

 

[RDKirk]

Then Joshua spoke to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel:

“Sun, Stand Still over Gibeon;
And Moon, in the Valley of Aijalon.”
So The Sun Stood Still,
And The Moon Stopped,
Till the people had revenge
Upon their enemies.

Is this not written in the Book of Jasher? So The Sun Stood Still In The Midst Of Heaven, And Did Not Hasten To Go Down for about a whole day. And there has been no day like that, before it or after it, that the Lord heeded the voice of a man; for the Lord fought for Israel.
• Joshua 10:12-14


/Thread

Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. -- 2 Corinthians 13

 

[HitchSlap]

The Bible IS The Written Historical Record:

It is?

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

The spinning globe in the beginning of this video is a lie, but it has good information of about Darwin :

 

[Freodin]

Or, you know.... the fact that earth still exist and we are here to talk about it.

Do these people even realise what would have to physically happen for the sun to "stand still in the sky for a day" and what the effect of that would be.


helpful tip: nothing would survive.

I always found this argument rather lacking.

If you have something/one that can result in the "sun standing still in the sky for a day", this same entity might also be able to avert the resulting side-effects.

It is a necessary consequence of assuming the existence of something that can do basically anything you imagine, up to and including logically paradoxical things.

 

[Tom 1]

Umm, about those citations...

This is a translation of the relevant Egyptian account -

‘The sun, thrown into confusion, had remained low on the horizon, and by not rising had spread terror amongst the great doctors. Two days had been rolled into one. The morning was lengthened to one-and-a-half times the normal period of effective daylight. A certain time after this divine phenomenon, the master had an image built to keep further misfortune from the country.

Hephaistos...grant protection to your worshipers. Prevent the words of these foreign travelers from having any effect. They are impostors. Let these enemies of the sacrifices to the images be destroyed in the temples of the great gods by the people of all classes. Make life harder for these cursed worshipers of the Eternal. Punish them. Increase the hardships of these shepherds. Reduce the size of their herds. Burn their dwellings.

Rameses, our celestial ancestral chief; you who forced these wretched people to work, who ill-treated them, who gave them no help when they were in need: cast them into the sea. They made the moon stop in a small angle at the edge of the horizon. In a small angle on the edge of the horizon, the sun itself, which had just risen at the spot where the moon was going, instead of crossing the sky stayed where it was. Whilst the moon, following a narrow path, reduced its speed and climbed slowly, the sun stopped moving and its intensity of light was reduced to the brightness at daybreak. The waves formed a wall of water against the boats that were in the harbor and those that had left it. Those fishermen that had ventured onto the deck to watch the waves were washed into the sea.

The tide, which had risen high, overflowed into the plains where the herds were grazing. The cattle drowned represented half the herds of Lower Egypt. The remains of abandoned boats broken against the sides of the canals were piled up in places. Their anchors, which should have protected them, had been ground into them. Quite out of control, the sea had penetrated deep into the country. The expanding waters reached the fortified walls constructed by Rameses, the celestial ancestral chief. The sea swept around both sides of the region behind, sterilizing the gar dens as it went and causing openings in the dikes. A great country had been turned into a wilderness and brought into poverty. All the crops that had been planted had been destroyed and heaps of cereal shoots lay scattered on the ground.’

There’s a Chinese account of the sun not setting, not having clocks linked to the passage of days as the Egyptians did the time period isn’t so specific. There are corresponding accounts of a ‘long night’ of twice or more the usual length from various North and South American sources. The original post was in response to the assertion that there weren’t other accounts relating some unusual event at the time of the Joshua 10 account (the dates for the Chinese & Egyptian accounts correspond).

 

[USincognito]

This is a translation of the relevant Egyptian account -

Again, that's not a citation. It's just some words. A citation would be a source (like a title and/or author) of the original along with where it was from and who translated it. Doing a Google search, the only sites I see mentioning it are woo sites and Google books about woo.

There’s a Chinese account of the sun not setting, not having clocks linked to the passage of days as the Egyptians did the time period isn’t so specific.

Which supposedly comes from "Emperor Yao" (or "Yeo"). The problem is no such emperor existed. Joshua's supposed long day would have taken place ~1,300 BCE. Not only is there no emperor by that name during the Shang dynasty 1600-1046 BCE, but there were no emperors until Chin Shi HuangDi took that title for himself.

There are corresponding accounts of a ‘long night’ of twice or more the usual length from various North and South American sources.

None of which seem to be valid. One of the supposed sources claims it was from the Olmecs but they didn't have writing or calendars from that time. Another is supposed to be the Aztecs, but they weren't around until the 1300s and how were they supposed to have gleaned this knowledge from a pre-literate civilization "recording" an even from 2600 years earlier?

The original post was in response to the assertion that there weren’t other accounts relating some unusual event at the time of the Joshua 10 account (the dates for the Chinese & Egyptian accounts correspond).

How can you possibly claim the part in bold when you haven't provided any dates?

 

[Tom 1]

Again, that's not a citation. It's just some words. A citation would be a source (like a title and/or author) of the original along with where it was from and who translated it. Doing a Google search, the only sites I see mentioning it are woo sites and Google books about woo.



Which supposedly comes from "Emperor Yao" (or "Yeo". The problem is no such emperor existed. Joshua's supposed long day would have taken place ~1,300 BCE. Not only is there no emperor by that name during the Shang dynasty 1600-1046 BCE, but there were no emperors until Chin Shi HuangDi took that title for himself.



None of which seem to be valid. One of the supposed sources claims it was from the Olmecs but they didn't have writing or calendars from that time. Another is supposed to be the Aztecs, but they weren't around until the 1300s and how were they supposed to have gleaned this knowledge from a pre-literate civilization "recording" an even from 2600 years earlier?



How can you possibly claim the part in bold when you haven't provided any dates?

I’m not writing an essay, this is a discussion, I read a few things that mention corresponding stories which seem relevant. If you want to know how relevant they are you’ll need to look them up - although I note that you haven’t provided citations for your assertions either. If you (or I) wanted to know more about it, the Egyptian quote is from a work by the Catholic writer Fernand Crombette, the Chinese in works by John Gill and C A L Totten, both from the 18thC, the Aztec accounts from an A Caso writing in 1937, and other South American accounts from the Popul Vuh: The Sacred Book of the Quiche Maya, from a translation made in the 70’s. If you want to know about how aural traditions are passed on, you’ll have to look into that yourself. I’m going on the assumption that these authors aren’t simply making it up, if you want to know if they are or not you’ll need to check that out yourself.

As to the meaning of the Joshua 10 passage, I’m still in Genesis when it comes to to figuring out what is actually meant by a given passage through the process of looking into what can be known about what it meant at the time it was written, within the culture of the time, e.g. John H Walton on Genesis 1, David Rosenberg on Abraham and more generally Auerbach on biblical literature. I’m yet to encounter any writer who simply makes things up.

 

[USincognito]

If you want to know how relevant they are you’ll need to look them up - although I note that you haven’t provided citations for your assertions either.

Awesome. If I do so, will you provide your own citations instead of wanting me to do your homework for you?

the Egyptian quote is from a work by the Catholic writer Fernand Crombette, the Chinese in works by John Gill and C A L Totten, both from the 18thC, the Aztec accounts from an A Caso writing in 1937, and other South American accounts from the Popul Vuh: The Sacred Book of the Quiche Maya, from a translation made in the 70’s.

Cool. That's a start. I'll check them out.

I’m yet to encounter any writer who simply makes things up.

Hmm, I encounter them all the time.