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Then show me where it doesn't apply to my OP.
That's it?The Challenger failed in its objectives, that is pretty evident. What else is there to say?
Why would you? Is there anything - beyond your desire - requiring to have everything labeled "success" or "failure" wholesale?You have two rubber stamps: one says SUCCESS, the other says FAILURE.
You have in front of you a report containing the Challenger disaster, along with the design of the new-and-improved (and much safer) shuttle.
Stamp the report.
So the Challenger mission, even though it spawned a new-and-improved and much safer model, was neither a success, nor a failure?Why would you? Is there anything - beyond your desire - requiring to have everything labeled "success" or "failure" wholesale?
So the Challenger mission, even though it spawned a new-and-improved and much safer model, was neither a success, nor a failure?
... I'd hate to see a real failure!
This is a false dichtonomy.You have two rubber stamps: one says SUCCESS, the other says FAILURE.
You have in front of you a report containing the Challenger disaster, along with the design of the new-and-improved (and much safer) shuttle.
Stamp the report.
So it was a success and a failure?The mission did not accomplish the goal it was set to do. In that regard, it was a failure. It cost a lot, in terms of money, material, life and honour. In that regard, it also was a failure. It served as a wake-up call for the responsible people. In that regard, it was a success. It gave an impetus to implement long due improvements. In that regard, it was a success.
Yes, I do.But you don't want to accept that, do you?
Well declare it something.You're just looking for someone to declare a human tragedy a "success" so you can condemn them for being inhuman and by extension condemn all of science for being inhuman. You're half as cunning as you think.
That would depend on the desired outcome, and that of course would depend on the desires.So it was a success and a failure?
Well, I wasn't the one who wanted to rubber stamp a report with either "success" or "failure". I was to one who asked you why everything had to be called either or. And somehow you were the one who couldn't leave it at that.Yes, I do.
Why wouldn't I?
You're the one having trouble with this ... not I.
Here's the OP again ... with emphasis:Well, I wasn't the one who wanted to rubber stamp a report with either "success" or "failure".
Now ... feel free to stamp the Challenger fiasco however you want.If a scientific endeavor fails to achieve its stated expectations ... even fails drastically, but from it comes a new and/or better product; is that scientific endeavor considered a "success" or a "failure"? or both? or neither? or what?
You said:You have two rubber stamps: one says SUCCESS, the other says FAILURE.
You have in front of you a report containing the Challenger disaster, along with the design of the new-and-improved (and much safer) shuttle.
Stamp the report.
Heaven forbid asking you guys to rubber stamp something is akin to asking you guys to psychoanalyze me and open your Pandora's box of venting & ridicule.I did.
I've also given you my answer.
It can't be rubber stamped unequivocally as a failure or a succes.Heaven forbid asking you guys to rubber stamp something is akin to asking you guys to psychoanalyze me and open your Pandora's box of venting & ridicule.
I'm not going to argue with you guys.It can't be rubber stamped unequivocally as a failure or a succes.
Your opening post was to ask us whether or not a scientific attempt that fails to reach its expectations but leads to new insight is a success, failure or something else.
The broad answer to that question is yes depending on variables. If it increases the sum total of human knowledge and leads to benefits down the line, yes. If it comes about as an accident with no environmental or human cost, yes as well. If it involves human cost then the human tragedy is a failure. The current knowledge or human error led to disaster.
Any new knowledge gained can prevent it from happening again, but the cost certainly wouldn't have been worth it.
Ya ... you disappoint me.Not sure where I ridiculed you at all.
I answered it in post #10... "Or what".Here's the OP again ... with emphasis:
Now ... feel free to stamp the Challenger fiasco however you want.
And while you're at it, feel free to answer the OP as well.
Was the Challenger's last mission branded a "success", in light of the new-and-improved shuttles?
(If you don't know, then I'll assume it was ... based on your answer; unless you say otherwise.)
Which reminds me of another situation: God's creation of Adam and Eve. Success or failure?
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