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Problems with Faith Alone Theology and the Double Imputation Theory.

Albion

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Which denomination's theology do you have in mind with this, John? It's the "denomination specific" forum.
 
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-57

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Welp, this is going to take a while....so I hope you read it.


I don't believe people accept Jesus and get saved. What I think happens is that they receive Jesus. Humans don't choose Jesus. It's the other way around. That's the first point you need to understand.
John 3:16 tells us that believers will not perish. It is the believers who receive Jesus and eternal life.

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.


illegally gotten? Eve then Adam disobeyed.

2. Adam's sin proves more powerful than Christ's work on the Cross. If even one soul is kept out of the presence of God and not restored to the Kingdom, then Adam did worse damage than Christ could repair.

This doesn't prove Adams sin was more powerful than what Jesus could restore....It shows that every single human deserves death considering death is sins wages. It shows One of the natures of God. A nature that is just.

Romans 9: 14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15For he says to Moses,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”f
16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

It is the sheer Divine providence of God who He desires to save or not save.

3. God is not sovereign and omnipotent, He is impotent and unable to undo the damage that Adam's sin did. Do we really want to infer this about God?
The above answer applies to statement 3. ..are you calling God unjust if He decides not to save someone?


That would depend on the nuance of the word "will" used in this instance.
There are for the most part 3 usages of "will".
(a) Sovereign decretive will, the will by which God brings to pass
whatsoever He decrees. This is hidden to us until it happens.

(b) Preceptive will is God's revealed law or commandments, which we have the
power but not the right to break.

(c) Will of disposition describes God's attitude or disposition. It reveals
what is pleasing to Him. ref

Considering the bible informs us that some people will perish....I would reconsider the way inwhich you use "will" in this portion of scripture.


By borrowing Easter views, you have presented a theology that is foreign to scripture.

Those God haters you mentioned...according to the bible....not Eastern religion...we receive the following:

Rev 21:7 The one who is victorious will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son. 8 But to the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and sexually immoral and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death.”


Your argument has now moved to speculation and away from biblical doctrine.

The bible in Hebrews 9:27 has this to say about a soul and repentance after death:
And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,

Could it be? Our Father is described as having mercy beyond our understanding. While I am not going to make a dogma of this hope, I think that given God's love and power, it is a good hope to have.

Is what you presented a good hope to have? Absolutly not. It gives people false hope...don't worry, you'll be OK after you die. Romans 10:13 telss us....For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
You tell us...no need to call on the name of the lord.
 
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-57

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You can claim faith alone is derived from the text, but faith alone does not justify in James 2:24. Hence justification by faith alone is simply not derivable from the scriptures.

Why do people insist on posting a snippet of biblical text....out of context? You forced James 2:24 from the context in which it was written.
 
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david.d

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This sounds a lot more like what the serpent said than what I've ever read God say or anything He has ever put on my heart. Reference?
 
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JohnMartin

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Jesus did not become sin. Jesus was a sin offering to merit grace which is then given through the sacraments. The notion that Jesus became sin is simply a grave error. The imputation of Christ's righteousness is also an error not taught in the scriptures.

JM
 
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JohnMartin

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Abraham believed God and it was reckoned to him as righteousness (Gen 15:6), infers justification is a meritorious action.

JM
 
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Steven Beck

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Abraham believed God and it was reckoned to him as righteousness (Gen 15:6), infers justification is a meritorious action.

JM

I think you are nit picking. Belief is a mindset not an action.
 
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JohnMartin

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Merit follows from the nature of the human act. Men are free to say yes or no to God. If yes then men merit salvation. If no, then men merit damnation. If men are free then merit follows. Men are free, hence men merit.

JM
 
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david.d

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Grave errors:

Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
2 Corinthians 5:20‭-‬21 KJV

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Romans 3:25‭-‬28 KJV

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Romans 8:29‭-‬33 KJV

Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work, To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Titus 3:1‭-‬7 KJV

This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
Titus 3:8‭-‬9 KJV

By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Hebrews 10:10‭-‬17 KJV
 
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JohnMartin

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2 Corinthians 5:20‭-‬21 is understood by the church fathers to mean God made Jesus as a sin offering. The concept of God making Jesus a sinner or sin is a grave error.

JM
 
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JohnMartin

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Law keeping is essential to the gospel. The law of Christ is kept when the heart is changed.

JM
 
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david.d

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We are the children of God. Which means we are the gods or God's of this world. We will never be equal to God, we will always be servants to God. Our dominion is in this world over this world. You won't have your own planet one day with a bunch of baby gods running around to start all over. Sorry.

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Ephesians 1:4‭-‬12 KJV

It is all about Christ and you saying it isn't says a lot.
 
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david.d

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2 Corinthians 5:20‭-‬21 is understood by the church fathers to mean God made Jesus as a sin offering. The concept of God making Jesus a sinner or sin is a grave error.

JM
He was never a sinner or it wouldn't have been an acceptable offering. That's the point. He was perfect and the only sacrifice that could cleanse the world of it's sin. All sacrifices before Christ were not enough, but he was.
 
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dqhall

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God did not offer up Jesus as a sin offering. A sin offering was an animal sacrificed and burnt on the horned altar to atone for an anointed priest's sin or the community's sin (Leviticus 4). Jesus was sent to teach. The chief priests accused him of blasphemy for he said he was the son of God. The chief priests of the Sanhedrin wanted to kill him as the law of Moses required blasphemers should be killed (Leviticus 24:10-16). The Romans ruled Judea and the Roman law did not allow the priests to execute anyone, so the chief priests took him to where Pontius Pilate was staying as Pilate was the Roman governor of Judea. The chief priests asked Pilate to crucify Jesus.

Our sins are forgiven if we live righteous lives. Not all of the laws of Moses can be trusted, for Jesus quoted the prophet Hosea, "God desires mercy and not sacrifice." Jesus was cleansing the temple by tipping over the tables of the money changers and those who sold sacrificial animals. This was one of his great acts of defiance. Jesus was also accused of working during the Sabbath. He defended himself by saying his father was working during the Sabbath and the priests performed the daily animal sacrifice in the temple during the Sabbath and this was also work. Animal sacrifice was banned in the fourth century Byzantine empire.
 
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Daniel_

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'Who will have' is better translated 'who desires', from the Greek 'thelei' - 3rd person present - meaning: he desires, wishes, wills.

God bless
 
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now faith

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1 Peter: 1. 23. Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

John: 1. 1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2. The same was in the beginning with God. 3. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

2 Corinthians: 5. 21. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Philippians: 3. 9. And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 10. That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11. If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. 12. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14. I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.


The imputation of Christ's righteousness is the only way we may enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
 
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now faith

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2 Corinthians 5:20‭-‬21 is understood by the church fathers to mean God made Jesus as a sin offering. The concept of God making Jesus a sinner or sin is a grave error.

JM

When it comes to be living God's Word or the Church fathers,I will rest on the Word of God.

2 Peter: 1. 17. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 19. We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20. Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

There is only one Church,and one Father in Heaven,the rest is simply presumption by men based on the ignorance of fact.
This would be a definition of theology.
 
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