Problems with Acts 2 Theology...Problem Nbr. 1

[eph3Nine]

PROBLEM NO. 1--THAT THERE IS ONLY 'ONE GOSPEL' IN THE BIBLE

The Scofield Bible is a good example of the Acts 2 position concerning the gospel.' On page 1343 of the old Scofield Bible (the 1909 edition) it states in its note on 'Gospel:' "Four forms of the Gospel are to be distinguished." It mentions the Gospel of the Kingdom, the Gospel of the grace of God, the Everlasting Gospel, and Paul's 'My Gospel.' Then at the bottom of the note it refers to 'another Gospel' that is mentioned in Gal. 1:6, inferring that it is a false gospel. This note uses the word 'gospel' in the singular.

A very common argument that is used to show that there is only 'one gospel' in the Bible has to do with the doctrine of justification by faith. It is taught that since Abraham and David were justified by faith (Ran. 4:1-8) and lived in the Old Testament, and that we today are also justified by faith (Rom. 5:1), then the same gospel must be preached in both Testaments.

Another common argument is that there is only one purpose of God in the Bible, consequently, one gospel. While this is basic to Reformed Theology, Acts 2 Dispensationalists go along with it because it seems to give some credence to the 'one gospel' theory.

They also use Romans 1:1-2 to show that the Gospel is found in the Old Testament.



THE TRUTH

The Bible does not teach the 'one gospel' theory. only theologians teach it. The Bible does not use the phrase 'one gospel.' only theologians use it. The Bible does not teach that God has revealed the same gospel message for all the dispensations of time. Rather, it is just the reverse. God has revealed different messages of 'good news' to mankind during certain periods of time, as He has willed. These messages are not to be mixed up or to be constituted as parts of one gospel. They were taken at face value at the time they were revealed.

The Scofield note on page 1343 could have been made much clearer and easier to understand. It is too general in its language. But it still reflects the teaching that there is only one gospel, one way of salvation, and that it is by grace through faith in all dispensations.
Those who believe this way really preach an homogenized gospel that is made up of some truth from the Kingdom Gospel and some truth from the Grace Gospel of the Apostle Paul. This mixing of two gospels also leaves out some vital truth related to each gospel. This is not good Bible teaching.

As to the doctrine of justification by faith, it sounds right but further examination proves that the conclusion is false. First, the doctrine of justification by faith is NOT the gospel message. It is a RESULT of the gospel or good news being believed by the individual as it is revealed by God. Justification is one of the works of God that takes place at the time of salvation. We don't tell people to be justified; we tell them that they must be saved.

Second, faith is taking God at His Word, by believing what God has said. In the case of Abraham, Paul went back to Genesis 15:5-6, which says: "And He brought him forth abroad and said, Look now toward heaven and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and He said unto him, So shall thy seed be. [6) And he believed in the LORD; and He counted it to him for righteousness." Verse 6 is unique because three words - 'believed' 'righteousness,' and 'counted' - are used here for the first time in the Old Testament. Abram believed (exercised faith) in what God told him, which is the contents of verse 5. Verse 5 does not contain the Gospel of the grace of God nor does it contain the Gospel of the Kingdom. Verse 5 is related to the Abrahamic Covenant which Paul called in Gal. 3:8, 'the gospel unto Abraham.'

In Galatians 1:6 there is 'another gospel,' a HETEROS gospel which is a gospel of a different kind. The Gospel of the Kingdom is what the Judaizers preached to the Galatian believers, not a 'false gospel' that Acts 2 people use to identify 'another gospel.' The Gospel of the Kingdom is a gospel of a different kind.

In Galatians 1:7 you have 'the gospel of Christ,' which is another name for the Gospel of the grace of God; and in Gal. 3:8 the 'gospel preached unto Abraham' is what Jehovah God told him in Genesis 12:3; 15:5-6. Besides these three gospels in Galatians, there is 'the Everlasting Gospel' of Rev. 14:6.

So there are at least four Gospels which are clearly mentioned in the Bible. It doesn't take a whole lot of study to see that they are different from one another. But it does take a lot of human ingenuity to make them all the same.

The theory of 'one gospel' needs to be seen as a major problem because so much hinges on it. Are we saved today by the gospel revealed to Paul, or are we saved by the Gospel preached by Peter? We can't be saved by both of them together. The Gospel of the Kingdom will make you religious today, but the Gospel of the grace of God alone will prepare you for heaven in God's spiritual realm of the Fourth Dimension.

When one reads Romans 1:1-2, it sounds like there is only 'one gospel' in the Bible: "Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God [21 which He had promised afore by His prophets in the Holy Scriptures."

The key word here is the first word in verse 2 - which. It is the Greek pronoun HOS. It can mean 'who' or 'whom' when referring to persons; 'what' when referring to objects; 'which' when referring to things.

Now the question is this: "What is the 'gospel' mentioned in verse 1? Is it a message (like 1 Cor. 15:1-4) or could it be a person?" It would help us to know an important fact - that 'which' modifies 'gospel' of verse 1.

Well, what did the old Testament prophets write about? Did they write about a I message' or did they write about a 'person'? The overwhelming evidence indicates that they wrote about a Person. All you have to do is go to Psalm 22, Isaiah 7:14; 9:6; 11:1-5; Isaiah 53; Jer. 23:6; Zechariah 12:10, and to many other passages. They wrote about a coming Messiah for the Nation of Israel. They did not know the name of Jesus, like we do, but they knew One was coming. Furthermore, Romans 1:1-2 is a repeat of Gal. 1:16, where Paul stated that he preached Christ Jesus as the gospel (Greek). So the right meaning of HOS in verse 2 is the word 'Whom' when it- refers to a Person. The Gospel of the grace of God is not found in the Old Testament.

By Robert C. Brock

 

[eph3Nine]

There really IS more than one gospel in the bible...gasp!

 

[eph3Nine]

bump

 

[Apollos1]

When one reads Romans 1:1-2, it sounds like there is only 'one gospel' in the Bible: "Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God [21 which He had promised afore by His prophets in the Holy Scriptures."

Yes, there is only ONE !

The key word here is the first word in verse 2 - which. It is the Greek pronoun HOS. It can mean 'who' or 'whom' when referring to persons; 'what' when referring to objects; 'which' when referring to things.

Okay...

Now the question is this: "What is the 'gospel' mentioned in verse 1? Is it a message (like 1 Cor. 15:1-4) or could it be a person?" It would help us to know an important fact - that 'which' modifies 'gospel' of verse 1.

The word "WHICH" in verse 2 does modify the word "gospel" in verse 1...

Well, what did the old Testament prophets write about? Did they write about a 'message' (corrected) or did they write about a 'person'?

The prophets wrote about alot of things,but the ONE thing they conveyed throughout the OT was the MESSAGE that a saviour was coming.

So the best you can say here is they wrote a MESSAGE about a person. It was a nice twist - but it is still a twist!

That is why all major translations translate the word "hos" as WHICH - not whom. That is quite a number of knowledgable scholars! Regrets to Brock...

Furthermore, Romans 1:1-2 is a repeat of Gal. 1:16, where Paul stated that he preached Christ Jesus as the gospel (Greek).

Not hardly! The points being made by Paul are different and the two Greek words - while similar - are different and therefore are translated different!


If you are not happy with the truth, you will change it!

Romans 1:1-2 - "Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called [to be] an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,which he promised afore through his prophets in the holy scriptures..."

Yes, the gospel was promised, the prophets said so... in the holy scriptures.

I will assume that the other "problems" listed in posts today are just as erroneous...

 

[Tychicum]

Apollos1 ... it is a bit of a trick question.

There is "good news" throughout the Bible.

 

[eph3Nine]

Amen tychie.....Good news was given progressively by God...not all at once.

The good news that was the mystery REVEALED, is said in scripture to complete the Word of God. Pauls gospel is the ONE gospel of today.

 

[Dispy]

Apollos1:

PLEASE give me you definition of the one "gospel of God."

I ask this question because Paul says in Colosians 1:25-26, "Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfill (make full/complete) the word of God; the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, bt now is made manifest to his saints:" (I left out the word "even" in verse 26 because it is not in the original.

From the above passage, it appears to me that prior to Paul, those before him did not have the complete "one gospel" that you seem to insist was always present.

What was the "one gospel" that Adam and Eve believed for their salvation/justification?

What was the "one gospel" that Able believed for his salvation/justification?

What was the "one gospel" that Noah believed for his salvation/justification?

What was the "one gospel" that Abram believed for his salvation/justification?

What was the "one gospel" that Abraham believed for his salvation/Justification?

What was the "one gospel" that Moses and the children of Israel believed for his/their salvation/justification?

What is the "one gospel" that members of The Body of Christ must believe for their salvation/justification.

Chapter and verse PLEASE for the above answers.

Looking forward to your reply and answers.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

 

[heymikey80]

Apollos1:

PLEASE give me you definition of the one "gospel of God."

I ask this question because Paul says in Colosians 1:25-26, "Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfill (make full/complete) the word of God; the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, bt now is made manifest to his saints:" (I left out the word "even" in verse 26 because it is not in the original.

From the above passage, it appears to me that prior to Paul, those before him did not have the complete "one gospel" that you seem to insist was always present.

What was the "one gospel" that Adam and Eve believed for their salvation/justification?

What was the "one gospel" that Able believed for his salvation/justification?

What was the "one gospel" that Noah believed for his salvation/justification?

What was the "one gospel" that Abram believed for his salvation/justification?

What was the "one gospel" that Abraham believed for his salvation/Justification?

What was the "one gospel" that Moses and the children of Israel believed for his/their salvation/justification?

What is the "one gospel" that members of The Body of Christ must believe for their salvation/justification.

Chapter and verse PLEASE for the above answers.

Looking forward to your reply and answers.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

"Abraham believed God and it was reckoned to him for righteousness." (Gn 15:6) So by extension, "The righteous shall live by faith." Hab 2:4

The Gospel is that God is victorious over the corruption of this Creation, and those relying on Him shall be vindicated by Him at the Last Day and resurrected. Job also knew this concept, it seems well-developed there (Job 19:25-27).

The Gospel became dramatically more compelling and far better understood (the actual sense of "revealed mystery") when Jesus was raised as testament to this fact (Heb 1:1-3). But the idea is embedded in ancient Judaism (Lk 24:27,44).

 

[Dispy]

Apollos1:

PLEASE give me you definition of the one "gospel of God."

I ask this question because Paul says in Colosians 1:25-26, "Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfill (make full/complete) the word of God; the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, bt now is made manifest to his saints:" (I left out the word "even" in verse 26 because it is not in the original.

From the above passage, it appears to me that prior to Paul, those before him did not have the complete "one gospel" that you seem to insist was always present.

What was the "one gospel" that Adam and Eve believed for their salvation/justification?

What was the "one gospel" that Able believed for his salvation/justification?

What was the "one gospel" that Noah believed for his salvation/justification?

What was the "one gospel" that Abram believed for his salvation/justification?

What was the "one gospel" that Abraham believed for his salvation/Justification?

What was the "one gospel" that Moses and the children of Israel believed for his/their salvation/justification?

What is the "one gospel" that members of The Body of Christ must believe for their salvation/justification.

Chapter and verse PLEASE for the above answers.

Looking forward to your reply and answers.

"Abraham believed God and it was reckoned to him for righteousness." (Gn 15:6) So by extension, "The righteous shall live by faith." Hab 2:4

The Gospel is that God is victorious over the corruption of this Creation, and those relying on Him shall be vindicated by Him at the Last Day and resurrected. Job also knew this concept, it seems well-developed there (Job 19:25-27).

The Gospel became dramatically more compelling and far better understood (the actual sense of "revealed mystery") when Jesus was raised as testament to this fact (Heb 1:1-3). But the idea is embedded in ancient Judaism (Lk 24:27,44).

Genesis 15:6 speaks of Abram, not Abraham. Abram's name wasn't changed until 17:5.

I do believe that salvation/justification has always been on the basis of FAITH, by believing (having faith)/doing what God required at that point in time of human history. Abram was counted righteous for beleving what God told him in verse 5. But that is not the "one gospel of God" that Apollos1 says that aways was.

The rest of you comments make no sense to me as an answer to the questions I asked.

God Bless.

 

[Apollos1]

Tychicum -

Indeed, there is good news throughout the Bible.

But in Mark 1:15 when Jesus came into Galilee and began His ministry He said-

"... believe the gospel."

Just which "good news" was He talking about.

Therein lies the answer...

 

[JDS]

Eph, you posted this;

PROBLEM NO. 2--THE BIBLE TEACHES THAT THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO BE SAVED

This is a logical conclusion based on problem no. 1, that there is only one gospel. Acts 2 Dispensationalists are very strong on maintaining that salvation throughout the ages has ALWAYS been by grace through faith. In order to support this, they teach that the principle found in Eph. 2:8-9 is true of the whole Bible (Reformed theology teaches this too). Charles C. Ryrie, in his book 'Dispensationalism Today' (1965), on pages 113-115, quotes from L.S. Chafer, C.I. Scofield, and W.L. Pettingill in support of the Acts 2 position. In a more recent book 'Continuity and Discontinuity' (1988) edited by John S. Feinberg, the author who takes the discontinuity position on salvation (Allen P. Ross) also believes that Eph. 2:8-9 pertains to the old Testament, page 164.

When someone has a false doctrine and an unteachable spirit, they usually misrepresent those who tell the truth. I read a couple of your points and that is what you and your friend does. I find your accusation that we teach there is more than one way to be saved particularly offensive and slanderous.

I know of no one who teaches what you have declared. Did you read mine and Wolf's conversation dealing with this very subject?

The letter to the Ephesians is the explanation of the church and has for it's theme, 'the mystery of Christ', which is described in Ep 3:6. We are informed that it was purposed by God from before the foundation of the world and that it would be accomplished upon the principle of grace. The invitation to the gentiles, who had no direct promises from God, would be the second entity who would be included in this body. Historically, that happened in Acts 10 when Peter used the keys to open the door of faith to the gentiles (See Mt 16:19). Paul recognized this as true when he gave this report; Ac 14:27 And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.

In the explanation of the theology of the church given in Eohesians, these two entities are clearly apparent for those who read closely.

For instance, if one would follow the pronouns, clarity would result.

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Ask yourself, who first trusted in Christ?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

The word 'also' is a word of addition. The atecedent of 'ye' is not limited to the Ephesians but is inclusive of all gentiles.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

The Jews were the first in the body of Christ, the church, having been born again of the Spirit (The only way to get in the church). 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off (gentiles), and to them that were nigh (Jews).
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Ac 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

The pouring out of the Spirit took place for Israel in Acts two, if you will believe the Word of God and the Jewish believers received him and were born again. Later, in Acts 10, he was poured out on the gentiles some 10 years later,and the testimony of Scripture declares it to be so. Ac 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. The word 'also' is a word of addition!

Ac 3:26 Unto you first (Israel, in context) God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.


Ac 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Ac 26:23 That Christ should suffer, [and] that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Ro 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Ro 8:23 And not only [they] (The creatures, in context who would be gentiles), but ourselves also (The Jews, in context), which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.

Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

The antecedent for the pronoun 'us and we' can be found here;

Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

James says the believers of Israel are a kind of 'firstfruits' of this dispensation, or the New covenant. Of course the harvest will be at the end of the age.

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world (Aion = age).
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Mid Acts dispensationlism breaks down when compared with the Scriptures and you and Dispy and others are perverting the Word of truth, and in your zeal, you are mischaracterizing the postion of those who disagree with you.

I think it is a waste of time to try to convince you seeing as how you are fixated on your false veiw of Eph 3:9, so I will not put forth much effort to that end.

 

[eph3Nine]

That is a wise decision. Wink

 

[Apollos1]

Dispy –

My definition of the ONE “gospel of God”? It is floating around these threads somewhere – you must not be paying attention.

The GOSPEL is the “glad tidings” of God’s plan that before the foundation of the world God planned to save man from his sins by the blood of Jesus Christ and all that is pertinent to that plan.As we read through the Bible, that covers a lot of things. But not all news is good news, and not all news is a part of that plan, and therfore not the gospel.

Dispy you have offered for consideration - Colossians 1:25 “…whereof I was made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which was given me to you-ward, to fulfil the word of God, 26 [even] the mystery which hath been hid for ages and generations: but now hath it been manifested to his saints…” ASV You then said…
"
From the above passage, it appears to me that prior to Paul, those before him did not have the complete "one gospel" that you seem to insist was always present.”

This quite a sweeping assumption from one verse. How does it “appear” that what you say is true? What you are actually doing (once again) is reading something INTO a passsage that is not there, this because of your preconceived ideas about Paul and that you think there are supposedly two gospels.

NOTHING in the passage says that Paul was the ONLY minister to fulfil the word of God, and the passage says NOTHING about what happened before this time. When you stop “adding” material into your readings, you may then begin to see what a passage is actually is saying!

You then offered… (edited for brevity)
What was the "one gospel" that Adam/Eve/Able/ Noah/Abraham/etc. believed for their salvation/justification?

I did not know that any of these had a “gospel” of their own – you have “added” that into the discussion. In fact, the word GOSPEL is not to be found in the OT.

The “Gospel” plan was set into motion (Eph. 1:4) and the prophets knew salvation was coming (1 Pt.1:10-12), but the “glad tidings” were not declared until John was in prison and Jesus declared “believe the gospel” in Galilee. Jesus had something very specific in mind. This was the “beginning of the gospel” (Mark 1:1) - salvation was coming to fruition.

(And yes I know where you will go from here, but you go ahead – I will be right behind you…)

Most of what I present below has already been said on other threads here, but it is worth repeating as you seem to have missed it…

The word “gospel” needs to be used and defined in the context. The NT sets the context of “GOSPEL” as the salvation being brought by Jesus Christ and everything that is pertinent to the bringing and fruition of that salvation! In this context, there is only ONE gospel – there can be only ONE !!! You choose to “fragment” the gospel every chance you get!
In Mark 1:15 Jesus said: “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe in the gospel.”Both the time being “fulfilled” and the announcement of the “kingdom” being at hand at a part of the “glad tidings”. Both of these (as well as many other things) were part of the plan – prophecied in scripture as yet to come - and now they had come! This meant salvation had come because salvation was a part of the plan also!

There is a context to, but no “qualification” needed of, the word here. Jesus said believe the “glad tidings”, whatever the glad tidings were to be. There were/are “glad tidings” about many things in the NT. We see the following in the NT:
The gospel – Mark 1:15.
The gospel of the kingdom – Matthew 9:35.
The gospel of Jesus Christ – Mark 1:1.
The gospel of the kingdom of God – Mark 1:14.
The gospel of the grace of God – Acts 20:24.
The gospel of God – Romans 1:1.
The gospel of his Son – Romans 10:15.
The gospel of Christ – Romans 1:15&16.
The gospel of peace - Ephesians 6:15.
The gospel of [your] salvation – Ephesians 1:13.

These things are the “gospel”, whether those “glad tidings” be about the kingdom, the Christ (God’s anointed), the Son (human aspect of Jesus), God (the designer of salvation’s plan), God’s grace (His disposition), peace, or our salvation.

Certainly you would not suggest that there were 10 or more “gospels” mentioned in the NT, yet you want to single out the “gospel of the kingdom” as if were of its own right a distinct and separate issue of “glad tidings”.The “gospel of the kingdom” is no more a separate gospel than the “gospel of peace” is. Each description as used in the NT is but synecdoche for the other, mentioning a specific aspect of the ONE gospel Jesus began to preach at the beginning of His ministry. There is so much to be glad about in the ONE gospel !<<<*>>>

In closing I will ask you –

In Mark 1 the word GOSPEL is used –3- times. It is called the gospel, the gospel of Jesus Christ, and the gospel of the kingdom of God.Is this chapter speaking of 3 different gospels –OR- are all 3 terms used to refer to the same gospel???

An honest answer will show SYNECDOCHE is used.

Then, perhaps, we can move on to the use of metaphors in scripture…

 

[eph3Nine]

Dispy –

My definition of the ONE “gospel of God”? It is floating around these threads somewhere – you must not be paying attention.

The GOSPEL is the “glad tidings” of God’s plan that before the foundation of the world God planned to save man from his sins by the blood of Jesus Christ and all that is pertinent to that plan.As we read through the Bible, that covers a lot of things. But not all news is good news, and not all news is a part of that plan, and therfore not the gospel.

Dispy you have offered for consideration - Colossians 1:25 “…whereof I was made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which was given me to you-ward, to fulfil the word of God, 26 [even] the mystery which hath been hid for ages and generations: but now hath it been manifested to his saints…” ASV You then said…
"
From the above passage, it appears to me that prior to Paul, those before him did not have the complete "one gospel" that you seem to insist was always present.”

This quite a sweeping assumption from one verse. How does it “appear” that what you say is true? What you are actually doing (once again) is reading something INTO a passsage that is not there, this because of your preconceived ideas about Paul and that you think there are supposedly two gospels.

NOTHING in the passage says that Paul was the ONLY minister to fulfil the word of God, and the passage says NOTHING about what happened before this time. When you stop “adding” material into your readings, you may then begin to see what a passage is actually is saying!

You then offered… (edited for brevity)
What was the "one gospel" that Adam/Eve/Able/ Noah/Abraham/etc. believed for their salvation/justification?

I did not know that any of these had a “gospel” of their own – you have “added” that into the discussion. In fact, the word GOSPEL is not to be found in the OT.

The “Gospel” plan was set into motion (Eph. 1:4) and the prophets knew salvation was coming (1 Pt.1:10-12), but the “glad tidings” were not declared until John was in prison and Jesus declared “believe the gospel” in Galilee. Jesus had something very specific in mind. This was the “beginning of the gospel” (Mark 1:1) - salvation was coming to fruition.

(And yes I know where you will go from here, but you go ahead – I will be right behind you…)

Most of what I present below has already been said on other threads here, but it is worth repeating as you seem to have missed it…

The word “gospel” needs to be used and defined in the context. The NT sets the context of “GOSPEL” as the salvation being brought by Jesus Christ and everything that is pertinent to the bringing and fruition of that salvation! In this context, there is only ONE gospel – there can be only ONE !!! You choose to “fragment” the gospel every chance you get!
In Mark 1:15 Jesus said: “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe in the gospel.”Both the time being “fulfilled” and the announcement of the “kingdom” being at hand at a part of the “glad tidings”. Both of these (as well as many other things) were part of the plan – prophecied in scripture as yet to come - and now they had come! This meant salvation had come because salvation was a part of the plan also!

There is a context to, but no “qualification” needed of, the word here. Jesus said believe the “glad tidings”, whatever the glad tidings were to be. There were/are “glad tidings” about many things in the NT. We see the following in the NT:
The gospel – Mark 1:15.
The gospel of the kingdom – Matthew 9:35.
The gospel of Jesus Christ – Mark 1:1.
The gospel of the kingdom of God – Mark 1:14.
The gospel of the grace of God – Acts 20:24.
The gospel of God – Romans 1:1.
The gospel of his Son – Romans 10:15.
The gospel of Christ – Romans 1:15&16.
The gospel of peace - Ephesians 6:15.
The gospel of [your] salvation – Ephesians 1:13.

These things are the “gospel”, whether those “glad tidings” be about the kingdom, the Christ (God’s anointed), the Son (human aspect of Jesus), God (the designer of salvation’s plan), God’s grace (His disposition), peace, or our salvation.

Certainly you would not suggest that there were 10 or more “gospels” mentioned in the NT, yet you want to single out the “gospel of the kingdom” as if were of its own right a distinct and separate issue of “glad tidings”.The “gospel of the kingdom” is no more a separate gospel than the “gospel of peace” is. Each description as used in the NT is but synecdoche for the other, mentioning a specific aspect of the ONE gospel Jesus began to preach at the beginning of His ministry. There is so much to be glad about in the ONE gospel !<<<*>>>

In closing I will ask you –

In Mark 1 the word GOSPEL is used –3- times. It is called the gospel, the gospel of Jesus Christ, and the gospel of the kingdom of God.Is this chapter speaking of 3 different gospels –OR- are all 3 terms used to refer to the same gospel???

An honest answer will show SYNECDOCHE is used.

Then, perhaps, we can move on to the use of metaphors in scripture…

The good news preached by Jesus on earth was NOT the same good news preached by Paul. One was a MYSTERY HID IN GOD and KEPT SECRET....REVEALED in due time by the due time testifier...Paul.

 

[heymikey80]

The good news preached by Jesus on earth was NOT the same good news preached by Paul. One was a MYSTERY HID IN GOD and KEPT SECRET....REVEALED in due time by the due time testifier...Paul.

I was still unknown by sight to the churches of Judea which were in Christ; but only, they kept hearing, "He who once persecuted us is now preaching the faith which he once tried to destroy." And they were glorifying God because of me. Gal 1:22-24

For I am the least of the apostles, ...Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed. 1 Cor 15:9,11​

 

[eph3Nine]

Sigh....we arent getting anywhere because you refuse to acknowledge who your apostle IS, and that Jesus words on earth were NOT addressed to YOU.

Yanking scripture OUT of context and jumping from one program to the other is NOT how God expects anyone to represent Him OR His present program.

If you dont know what program God is in today, then step BACK and allow us who DO KNOW to teach it.

 

[Dispy]

Dispy –

My definition of the ONE “gospel of God”? It is floating around these threads somewhere – you must not be paying attention.

The GOSPEL is the “glad tidings” of God’s plan that before the foundation of the world God planned to save man from his sins by the blood of Jesus Christ and all that is pertinent to that plan.As we read through the Bible, that covers a lot of things. But not all news is good news, and not all news is a part of that plan, and therfore not the gospel.

Dispy you have offered for consideration - Colossians 1:25 “…whereof I was made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which was given me to you-ward, to fulfil the word of God, 26 [even] the mystery which hath been hid for ages and generations: but now hath it been manifested to his saints…” ASV You then said…
"
From the above passage, it appears to me that prior to Paul, those before him did not have the complete "one gospel" that you seem to insist was always present.”

This quite a sweeping assumption from one verse. How does it “appear” that what you say is true? What you are actually doing (once again) is reading something INTO a passsage that is not there, this because of your preconceived ideas about Paul and that you think there are supposedly two gospels.

NOTHING in the passage says that Paul was the ONLY minister to fulfil the word of God, and the passage says NOTHING about what happened before this time. When you stop “adding” material into your readings, you may then begin to see what a passage is actually is saying!

You then offered… (edited for brevity)
What was the "one gospel" that Adam/Eve/Able/ Noah/Abraham/etc. believed for their salvation/justification?

I did not know that any of these had a “gospel” of their own – you have “added” that into the discussion. In fact, the word GOSPEL is not to be found in the OT.

The “Gospel” plan was set into motion (Eph. 1:4) and the prophets knew salvation was coming (1 Pt.1:10-12), but the “glad tidings” were not declared until John was in prison and Jesus declared “believe the gospel” in Galilee. Jesus had something very specific in mind. This was the “beginning of the gospel” (Mark 1:1) - salvation was coming to fruition.

(And yes I know where you will go from here, but you go ahead – I will be right behind you…)

Most of what I present below has already been said on other threads here, but it is worth repeating as you seem to have missed it…

The word “gospel” needs to be used and defined in the context. The NT sets the context of “GOSPEL” as the salvation being brought by Jesus Christ and everything that is pertinent to the bringing and fruition of that salvation! In this context, there is only ONE gospel – there can be only ONE !!! You choose to “fragment” the gospel every chance you get!
In Mark 1:15 Jesus said: “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe in the gospel.”Both the time being “fulfilled” and the announcement of the “kingdom” being at hand at a part of the “glad tidings”. Both of these (as well as many other things) were part of the plan – prophecied in scripture as yet to come - and now they had come! This meant salvation had come because salvation was a part of the plan also!

There is a context to, but no “qualification” needed of, the word here. Jesus said believe the “glad tidings”, whatever the glad tidings were to be. There were/are “glad tidings” about many things in the NT. We see the following in the NT:
The gospel – Mark 1:15.
The gospel of the kingdom – Matthew 9:35.
The gospel of Jesus Christ – Mark 1:1.
The gospel of the kingdom of God – Mark 1:14.
The gospel of the grace of God – Acts 20:24.
The gospel of God – Romans 1:1.
The gospel of his Son – Romans 10:15.
The gospel of Christ – Romans 1:15&16.
The gospel of peace - Ephesians 6:15.
The gospel of [your] salvation – Ephesians 1:13.

These things are the “gospel”, whether those “glad tidings” be about the kingdom, the Christ (God’s anointed), the Son (human aspect of Jesus), God (the designer of salvation’s plan), God’s grace (His disposition), peace, or our salvation.

Certainly you would not suggest that there were 10 or more “gospels” mentioned in the NT, yet you want to single out the “gospel of the kingdom” as if were of its own right a distinct and separate issue of “glad tidings”.The “gospel of the kingdom” is no more a separate gospel than the “gospel of peace” is. Each description as used in the NT is but synecdoche for the other, mentioning a specific aspect of the ONE gospel Jesus began to preach at the beginning of His ministry. There is so much to be glad about in the ONE gospel !<<<*>>>

In closing I will ask you –

In Mark 1 the word GOSPEL is used –3- times. It is called the gospel, the gospel of Jesus Christ, and the gospel of the kingdom of God.Is this chapter speaking of 3 different gospels –OR- are all 3 terms used to refer to the same gospel???

An honest answer will show SYNECDOCHE is used.

Then, perhaps, we can move on to the use of metaphors in scripture…

I feel that if I used your reasoning/logic, I could say that I have only one child. My older son is a cement contractor, my younger son is a rock salesman, and my daughter is a trainer of the mentally and physically challaged.

After all, they all have the same parents. Or wouldn't that be a good SYNEDOCHE?

 

[Dispy]

After reading my last post, maybe I should have said: "I feel that if I used your reasoning/logic, I could say that I have only one children, or one offsprings, or one siblings, or whatever. After all, they were know by God before the foundation of the world, and foretold (prophesied) prior to their arrival.

 

[Apollos1]

Dispy –

Your reply (or really the lack of one) is quite disappointing. But I guess if you have no answers, you don’t say much. Dispensationalism is quite indefensible as you are showing.

You did manage to say – “I feel that if I used your reasoning/logic, I could say that I have only one child. My older son is a cement contractor, my younger son is a rock salesman, and my daughter is a trainer of the mentally and physically challaged.”

Your analogy is flawed.

IF your older son was a contractor, a salesman, and a teacher, then he could legitimately be called by any of those names.

The Gospel is the “glad tidings” of salvation – more than ONE tiding applies to the Gospel – many facts comprise our salvation!

My best to you in your hopefully continued studies in what the Gospel actually comprises.

 

[JDS]

Apollos1, you said,

Your reply (or really the lack of one) is quite disappointing. But I guess if you have no answers, you don’t say much. Dispensationalism is quite indefensible as you are showing.



Would you have us believe that Jesus and his disciples went all over Judea and Samaria and Gallilee preaching that Jesus died for their sins and was buried and rose again and they did this for 3 1\2 years? If so, why didn't the writers of the gospels ever record it? Are we complete idiots here that cannot read?

What did everyone who heard the message of these preachers believe? Does the gospels record that those who heard him believe what Jesus was saying? Did they put him to death because they thought he was saying that he died for them and was buried and rose again?

Sometimes I get the impression that you people are so foolish that you cannot read or you have absolutely no comprehension skills.

No one in their right mind could possibly believe that Jesus and the rest of the apostles before the cross were preaching the same thing that Paul and the other disciples preached after the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Paul defined the gospel of salvation as this; 1 Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

If you think this was preached before the cross, there is not much hope for your understanding.

Everyone who heard Jesus speak thought he was proclaiming himself as the king of Israel. But not everyone who reads the gospels understands that Jesus was making this claim. You apparently don't!

Pilot, after he had heard about Jesus for some time;
Mt 27:11 And Jesus stood before the governor: and the governor asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And Jesus said unto him, Thou sayest.

Joh 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Those who scourged him thought he was claiming to be a king and they crowned him!
Mt 27:29 And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put [it] upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!

Those who rejected him thought he was claiming to be King;
Joh 19:19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
Joh 19:21 Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.

The wise men from the East thought he was King of the Jews:
Mt 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

The disciples, after three years as his companions thought he and they had been preaching about his kingdom and as late as the ascension had thgis question for him;
Ac 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

After two thousand years of church history, the conclusion by some is that Jesus was not preaching about his kingdom even though everyone who heard him tthought so, but he was preaching that he died and was buried and rose again.

Is that what you people who say there is no difference in the good news messages of the Bible are asking us to believe?

If you are, then there is no hope for you in your current state of ignorance, and if you are not, then there are such things as dispensations!