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Yes. I know.
Impossible to come up with any support for your incorrect beliefs.
Nuff said.
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Yes. I know.Already answered this one. OSAS is a made up derogatory term Arminians use as a straw man.
Predestination is taught in Romans 8 and Ephesians 1-2
Well, since I'm so wrong, why don't YOU exegete the entire chapter of Romans, using hermeneutics please and not what you've been taught in your church.Until you actually respond to the entire chapter which clearly delineates divine election.
Your answer is "it's about Israel." Sure but what Paul is discussing is how God shows mercy on whom He pleases and hardens who He desires.
Good catch.And what could be any more clear that he speaks of people being saved and yet they must HOLD FAST to the word which was preached to them. If they don't they would have believed in vain.
AgreedJesus died for everyone.
Now it's up to everyone to receive his free gift.
It does. However, those who hold to that position have to make illogical claims to hold to that position. For instance, they'll say that God controls all things yet is not the author of sin. That is a logical contradiction. One can't control everything and something not be in one's control. The Biblical doctrine of Election is quite different than the Reformer's doctrine of Election.
The theology that teaches what you present assumes that no man can ever long for God or be drawn to want to know if there is a God. If we test this in real life this is not the case at all. The evidence for the choice being layed on men is seen in the devotion to preaching the good news that those men had from John the Baptist to the apostle John. If God were doing it all because no man can repent because of some literal dead state, then they wasted their time. So they did not think that no man can repent unless God first changes him. Jesus never said to them that they are all dead in their sins and cannot respond to the Gospel anyway, which is what this theology says.
So my answer is that this theology makes something concrete and material out of what was actually only a metaphor. Being dead in sin is a metaphor for a hardness of heart that occurs as one continually engages in sin. It is not an actually literal deadness. No one spoke of repentance as being resurrected which would need to occur if men were actually dead in sin.
Jesus said that no one comes to the Father unless the Father draws him. Drawing means He calls but it also means we must respond. That is what is expected from God's viewpoint and why we preach. God draws men but they have to come. How shall they come if we do not tell them? So we tell them. It is not all God all the time doing all of it.
Good try.You asked: “Could you show me one verse that states Jesus died only for a select few?”
Answer: Easily. The most familiar NT quote is John 3:16-- Jesus died for whoever would believe in Him. It does not say how many or how few, but it would require belief. Billions have not believed.
In Matthew 7:13–14, Jesus did say, "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." The condition of salvation, the way, is faith in Jesus Christ. And ”faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ” and Jesus said that His sheep would hear Him.
You say God predestines all things.I understand exactly what I believe.
What you say Reformed theology teaches is different from what it teaches. That is easy to see simply by reading what the WCF says.
The WCF came complete with "proof texts". I can't do your homework for you.
Just be sure that you differentiate between what you think Reform theology "amounts to" and what it actually teaches. There is a big difference.
Anyone can see that from looking at your posts and comparing them to the WCF. That's why I provided it to you so you can compare it's conclusions concerning what the scriptures teach and what you have said they believe.
What on earth are you talking about?
Predestination was taught by Paul, Peter and Jesus.
The predestination of all things which happen in God's creation is also the necessary logical conclusion of a belief in the omniscience of God - even if it were not taught directly by the Lord and His apostles.
God knew before the foundation of the world exactly what would happen if He acted in certain ways. There was absolutely no chance at all that what God knew would happen would not indeed happen.
He has so acted and has continued to act in innumerable ways - thereby making it God who predestines all things by so choosing to act.
I can only state what the scriptures teach and what logic demands. I can't do your thinking for you.
Jesus was not asleep when He said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, He that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death to life." John 5:24
Get yourself a good Bible and take a break from talking about things you know nothing about.
Not only do I believe in the N.T. scriptures,What??? "Predestination did not exist before 1500 AD?" So you do not believe in the New Testament scriptures? Peter said Paul's writings were scripture. The Christian Church (virtually every early church) believed Paul was an Apostle chosen by Jesus per the Damascus Road experience in Acts, and that his letters were holy scripture.
Please pick out whatever version of the New Testament you like, then examine Romans 8:28-30, Ephesians 1:4-5, 2 Timothy 1:9, and of course almost all of Romans 9. Then tell me again that predestination was an idea that occurred 1500 years after Jesus.
Good try.
You yourself have said that
FAITH COMES BY HEARING
...HEARING THE WORD OF GOD.
If faith comes by hearing...
YOU HEAR FIRST...
Then you have faith and believe.
On this you're right.
And luckily for mankind, God has revealed Himself to ALL MEN.
Romans 1:19-20
John 12:32 ALL MEN...ALL
all
ɔːl/
predeterminer, determiner, & pronoun
adverb
- 1.
used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing.
"all the people I met"
sinonimi: each of, each one of the, every one of the, every single one of the; Altro
- 1.
completely.
"dressed all in black"
sinonimi: completely, fully, entirely, totally, wholly, absolutely, utterly, outright, thoroughly, altogether, quite, in every respect, in all respects, without reservation, without exception
"he was dressed all in black"
- 2.
(in games) used after a number to indicate an equal score.
You did not say that. You said I was ignoring you. That is, I was purposely choosing wrong. I did not say you were unreasonable. Can you stick to what was said please? Being unreasonable in any case is known to be in a moment regarding a certain point. Ignoring someone is purposefully done.So, if you say I am being unreasonable are you attacking my character? What if I was actually being unreasonable and arguing from my emotions rather than my reason? Would that make me malevolent and of poor character or would that mean I simply a was not using reason and instead using emotion as the basis for my argument? BTW, I do not recall talking about you at all. I was under the impression that I was addressing your argument and not attacking you personally. If I find your argument to be subjective it does not mean I find you to be evil.
When one knows Him, the answers become clear. Just wanted to throw in that one can know answers to these and the other hard questions. We are not left in the dark. It is just that the light is expensive. As I said, casual inquirers are not given any information worth talking about.If God is all-loving, and
God is omnipotent,
why does evil exist?
So many questions, so little time.
The problem is Calvinist theology is such that one really not need to any of that since God has preselected who will go to Heaven and they cannot miss even if no one preaches the Gospel to them and they never repent and He has equally preselected who is going to Hell and they cannot miss hell even if they repent in tears and loud crys. They are doomed. So preaching the Gospel makes no sense really to reformed thinkers. They need this thinking to be reformed.In Reformed Theology we teach that Faith does come by hearing the Word of God! And we also teach that the Gospel is to be preached to all MEN! Yes, God has revealed himself to mankind! We are on the same page so far.
So what's your point?
That would make him a dictator. And in fact, the worse dictator of all time manipulating the inside of men for his own purposes. Satan is less evil than this sort of being. Satan hates every man equally and has no particular people he chooses for his place predestining them to come no matter what. He might lose them in the end and he knows it. The dictator manipulating men is making them lose no matter what.If God can raise sons of Abraham from stone, then He is completely able to dictate the human heart.
The problem is Calvinist theology is such that one really not need to any of that since God has preselected who will go to Heaven and they cannot miss even if no one preaches the Gospel to them and they never repent and He has equally preselected who is going to Hell and they cannot miss hell even if they repent in tears and loud crys. They are doomed. So preaching the Gospel makes no sense really to reformed thinkers. They need this thinking to be reformed.
And here's a thought. Why is it that Satan's not willing that anyone should be saved but all should be lost and that means 100% of humanity BUT God wouldn't be the opposite...Not willing that any 100% of humanity should perish but all should come to repentance?Satan hates every man equally and has no particular people he chooses for his place predestining them to come no matter what. He might lose them in the end and he knows it. The dictator manipulating men is making them lose no matter what.
So how does an elect according to his infinite mercy not vibe with scriptures?This says a lot about me. But it doesn't say enough about God...
God is love.
1 John 4:8
God is merciful.
Deuteronomy 7:9
2 Corinthians 1:3-4
God is just.
Romans 3:26
This is the God I know.
I get that. But in strict election, if you want to leave you can't.
Amusing yourself with toys is not the most fulfilling life to be lifed
Reformed theology requires God forcing people to do what they do not want to do
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