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The Scriptures point to the Lord. At some point we need to get to know him, don't you think?
OK, I guess the question is, what is His plan? It's laid in the Scriptures. That what Election and Predestination are about.
I'm of the belief that we read the Bible, which instructs us to have a personal relationship with the Lord. Then, more and more, I try to do what the Lord instructs me to do..
It's the fact that I do know Him that compels me to know Him even better, more intimately through His word.
Are you of the belief, we read the New and Old Testaments once, and then put them down, using them from then on only as a cursory reference book?
The Scriptures point to the Lord. At some point we need to get to know him, don't you think?
I'm of the belief that we read the Bible, which instructs us to have a personal relationship with the Lord. Then, more and more, I try to do what the Lord instructs me to do.
Yep. And we can have inner peace and joy regardless of our present troubles because we know the end of the story.
Sure, Israel is God's elect. God made certain promises to Abraham. He promised, to make Abraham a great nation, the father of many nations, that all nations would be blessed through him, and to give him all the land that he could see when God was speaking to him. Election and Predestination are the way that God fulfilled these promises. Israel is elect because they are the seed of Abraham. Predestination is of Israel. God predestined or predetermined who He would use Israel to fulfill His promises to Abraham
So what?Actually, I wasn't speaking to you...
That's true. I just find it disheartening that so many don't know the plan and we see these threads where Christians go back and forth arguing and both sides are wrong. When I see these debates about Election and Predestination I want to tell both sides, you're wrong. The problem is that most won't listen reason. It seems that too often it's more about winning the argument than getting to the truth.
I'm of the belief that we read the Bible, which instructs us to have a personal relationship with the Lord. Then, more and more, I try to do what the Lord instructs me to do.
Sure! Verses 3-12 are what is known as a Hebraism. It's a praise of God. In this section Paul is praising God for what He's done for the Jewish people. Take note that in verses 3-12 Paul uses first person plural pronouns, us, we, and our. Then in verse 13 he switches to second person plural pronouns, you and your. What he's done here is distinguish two different groups, us and you. He includes himself in the "us" group. The "us" group is the Jews and the "you" group is his Gentile readers. This can be seen from verse 12 among other things. In verse 12 Paul says, 'we who before hoped in the Christ'. It was the Jews who had hoped in the Christ, not the Gentiles. If you notice Paul opens the letter this way.
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: (Eph. 1:1 KJV)
Notice again, two groups. The saints and the faithful in Jesus Christ. He goes on later in the letter to identify the saints. In chapter 2 Paul draws a distinction between the Jews and the Gentiles.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; (Eph. 2:11-19 KJV)
Notice that he said, "you being Gentiles". The "You group" is the Gentiles. He goes on to say that the "you" group were far off. The Jews were nigh. Then he says that in Christ they, the "you" group, are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints. The contrast was between Jew and Gentile. The Gentiles were the "you" group and have now become fellow citizens with the saints, the Jews.
Go Blue!!! Not the dinosaur...lol.You'd think an LA Dodger fan would know better.
I couldn't disagree more. The Lord can teach us what he wants us to know with, or without, the Bible.Without the gospel as we find it in the scriptures (either preached to us or read by us), we would not even think to get to know Him. "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ" etc. So starting with faith, we seek relationship with Him by prayer and many other means, in order to know Him intimately. So I agree with you; what can be more important than knowing God?
“You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you," declares the LORD. (Jeremiah 29:13).
"Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent." (John 17:3).’
“I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord” (Philippians 3:7)
@Marvin Knox would do well to misundestand reformed theology.
Yes, constantly interacting with the Lord in prayer would be key.Yes. "Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect." We best renew our minds by immersing ourselves in the Word of God ... and constantly interacting with the Lord in prayer.
And praying constantly (1 Thess 5:17)..
I have been doing just that for 50 years now, and there are still things God opens to me when I read, and gives me a deeper understanding of what I have believed.
It never stops, we are continually growing, and reading and studying are all part of it,
Yep. And Paul's primary role was to be Apostle to the Gentiles, but he always went first to the Jews in every town.Thanks for sharing. I beg to differ. Paul is addressing the church of believers, both Jews & Gentiles. There is no separation between Gentile & Jew. And God chose us BEFORE the foundation of the world.
The Dodgers are in the right league, but not the right city.Go Blue!!! Not the dinosaur...lol.
Too late here.
Will answer tomorrow.
Hitler had no love in Him.
God IS LOVE.
Next, they'll say, "Do you want to go to heaven?" Have you ever had anybody say, "No, I'd rather go to hell." My friend, understand this, everyone wants to go to heaven. They just don't want God to be there when they get there.
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