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Your still under the law? When did God take away the laws? Are you saying that it is okay to cheat and lie? To murder and commit adultery?Living under grace and not under the law, my religion is a light yoke, Christ broke the chains that bound me to RC rules and dogmatic beliefs. Nothing against RCs, i just needed some truth in my religion.
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That is cheating. LOLI will let you know once i cross from life to death.
So I'm curious what probabilities you might give that your religion is true.
This reminds me of the scene from "Expelled" where Dawkins is asked about the probability that he's right, at about 1:48 in this clip. There's a kinda funny part:It seems to me that "belief" in a religion is the decision to behave as though that religion is true. A person might reason that a religion is 5% likely to be true, but that same person might decide to "believe" that religion - i.e. live according to that religion. This is similar to when a person places a large bet on a horse to win after studying all the statistics. In addition, most people don't behave as though their religion is true all the time; most people will only stick their necks out so far. This is similar to how much a person is willing to bet on their chosen horse.
So I'm curious what probabilities you might give that your religion is true.
Anyway you can't put a number on this, but if I sort of work in reverse: someone once said it would take one greater than Jesus to invent Jesus. I believe the probability that the person of Jesus was invented is very close to zero. Therefore, I have to believe Jesus is real and is who he says he is and the rest of Christianity follows from that.
No, I don't assume the first one and I don't deny the second one.There are two biased assumptions there:
- You assume that Jesus was invented by one person. He could be say, collection of stories of 30 teachers put together into the life of one person. So, all of them had to be 1/30 of what the outcome (Jesus) is.
- Every fiction writer can imagine characters that are more noble, wiser and better people than they themselves are. Human imagination is not bound to our own character.
In my experience I have done away with stealing, lying, etc under grace which allows me personal study of the scripture to understand why the laws make logical sense. The law however was under capital punishment under human non forgiveness while grace is an open door to understanding how to rid these sins through Christ and through his works. His sermon explaining in depth the commandments made me realize how breaking these laws provokes anger in others and unwillingness to change.Your still under the law? When did God take away the laws? Are you saying that it is okay to cheat and lie? To murder and commit adultery?
someone once said it would take one greater than Jesus to invent Jesus. I believe the probability that the person of Jesus was invented is very close to zero. Therefore, I have to believe Jesus is real and is who he says he is and the rest of Christianity follows from that.
I mean his historicity, the things he said, things he did, people's reactions to him, the whole totality of what was recorded in the documents - I don't believe it could have (or would have) been made up.If by "Jesus was invented" you mean that Jesus was not a historical person, then most historians agree with you. I don't know how that implies the truth of Christianity though. Probably I am misunderstanding your argument.
I mean his historicity, the things he said, things he did, people's reactions to him, the whole totality of what was recorded in the documents - I don't believe it could have (or would have) been made up.
Who made it up?Well, there is evidence that parts of it are made up. For example, the story of Jesus, Pharisees and the sinning woman and the famous line about sinless people throwing the first stones.
Who made it up?
That's neither proof that it wasn't in the earliest manuscripts, nor that it was made up.Nobody knows. Someone likely added it there somewhere in the process of making copies of the original manuscripts. For a simple briefing of the topic, take a look at Wikipedia page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus...istory_of_textual_criticism_on_John_7:53-8:11
During the 16th century, Western European scholars – both Catholic and Protestant – sought to recover the most correct Greek text of the New Testament, rather than relying on the Vulgate Latin translation. At this time, it was noticed that a number of early manuscripts containing John's Gospel lacked John 7:53-8:11 inclusive; and also that some manuscripts containing the verses marked them with critical signs, usually a lemniscus or asterisk.
That's neither proof that it wasn't in the earliest manuscripts, nor that it was made up.
Here is a wikipedia link specifically on that disputed story in John. There are scholars who argue both sides. My understanding is that the majority of scholars think the story was not originally in John, but there is evidence both ways.That's neither proof that it wasn't in the earliest manuscripts, nor that it was made up.
So, this is just me mind you, but I'd put this list that you provided as "religious beliefs". For spiritual Truth, I'd go beyond all of that and head more towards where the Divine Source becomes an absolute reality in ones' life and see what the tapestry of life looks like from that perspective.A Christian on CF professes the Nicene Creed and that lists some things.
- Christ was born of a virgin
- Christ was resurrected
- Christ will judge everybody
- etc.
I won't argue, but if you want to know the truth about the originality of the stories in the Bible, I recommend studying the topic in depth. There is no need to take my opinion about it, credible Christian theologians who have studied the history of the manuscripts can tell you all the facts about this aswell.
Here is a wikipedia link specifically on that disputed story in John. There are scholars who argue both sides. My understanding is that the majority of scholars think the story was not originally in John, but there is evidence both ways.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_and_the_woman_taken_in_adultery
I've studied some, thanks.
I'm familiar with things that scholars dispute and the things they don't dispute. Even the fact that they're disputed doesn't still mean they couldn't all be true. And as I said, given everything I believe that in totality Jesus couldn't have been made up.
So, this is just me mind you, but I'd put this list that you provided as "religious beliefs". For spiritual Truth, I'd go beyond all of that and head more towards where the Divine Source becomes an absolute reality in ones' life and see what the tapestry of life looks like from that perspective.
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