Priests must buy their own vestments

[MKJ]

A woman in my EFM group's husband was recently ordained. THey were told by the Bishop that they must purchase their own vestments - and not just cassock, alb, stole, but rather the whole shebang.

This seems bizarre to me for two reasons. The first is that every parish in the diocese has their own, so it seems redundant in the vast majority of cases.

The second is that these poor people who were just ordained aren't exactlly rolling in the dough, and vestments are expensive. I can only think that this is going to result in a great increase in really ugly polyester items.

Has anyone ever heard of this or have any idea why it would be done? The only thing I can think of is that they are going to sell off all the ones owned by parishes, but that seems totally unlikely (and i suspect the parishes would hide them anyway.)

 

[AngCath]

Most situations of which I am aware are that parishes will have some vestments (typically a complete set for each season) but smaller/poorer places may not have everything they need. Most priests will also own their own stuff. I guess, really, it just depends on the situation.

Seminarians are usually given a discount by liturgical supply companies to gradually acquire the essentials while they're in seminary.

 

[MKJ]

Most situations of which I am aware are that parishes will have some vestments (typically a complete set for each season) but smaller/poorer places may not have everything they need. Most priests will also own their own stuff. I guess, really, it just depends on the situation.

Seminarians are usually given a discount by liturgical supply companies to gradually acquire the essentials while they're in seminary.

Yes, that is how it is here - the few places that have nothing are either very new parishes, or situations where there isn't actually a church and they are in a hall or something. Many older rural churches are poor but still have full sets of vestments. There are only a few. So to me, the requirement that all priests should have their own seems superfluous - even in the case of a new parish, why not set about having the parish get some vestments? It seems so wasteful for each priest to have a set for each season.

 

[AngCath]

Someone in the Church of England could confirm or deny this but I've been told that CoE seminarians often have a "vestments" budget as part of their financial support from their diocese.

 

[Timothy]

Simple solution. Don't use vestments. That's what a lot of churches in the Church of England do. Most clergy that I know have their own set of choir dress for when the Bishop visits, but other than that... why bother?

 

[AngCath]

Simple solution. Don't use vestments. That's what a lot of churches in the Church of England do. Most clergy that I know have their own set of choir dress for when the Bishop visits, but other than that... why bother?

Even if that didn't offend my high church sensibilities I have never seen an Episcopal parish w/o vestments.... though I suppose one exists out there somewhere.

 

[Albion]

Basically, I agree with the sentiments expressed in the OP, but I also was thinking somewhat along the lines Sir Timothy was. A cassock, surplice, cincture (or belt) and two stoles ARE a complete set of vestments. That shouldn't break the bank, and cassocks are privately purchased at that. The cost of the rest? Less than $200 new and much less used.

 

[RestoreTheRiver]

I was given several stoles by a retired priest. And, as Albion suggests, I have also pursued the "gently used" market, with excellent results.

Michael

 

[ebia]

Simple solution. Don't use vestments. That's what a lot of churches in the Church of England do. Most clergy that I know have their own set of choir dress for when the Bishop visits, but other than that... why bother?

There must be plenty of other parishes like ours with fine sets of vestments, including quite an extraordinary set of copes, that are not going to be used again, who would happly give them to someone/where that did want them.

 

[PaladinValer]

I think some things really should be simply given upon their ordination to...

Minor Orders

Surplice/Cotta
Cincture

Subdeaconate

Amice
Alb
Biretta (I don't like poms on S-Ds; just me)
Tunicle

Deaconate

Stole <---BIG one. THE sacerdotal vestment, even beyond chasuble! A MUST to be provided by the diocese
Biretta (now you may have the pom; just me)
Dalmatic

Priesthood

Chasuble

Bishop

Ring
Miter
Crosier

Metropolitan/Primate (Archbishop-level)

Pallium (Eastern-style; I don't like the Roman model much)

 

[Albion]

I was given several stoles by a retired priest. And, as Albion suggests, I have also pursued the "gently used" market, with excellent results.

Michael

Yes. If we turn to the practical side of this issue--what the new priest is to do now--it's a fact that many parishes will give surplus vestments to new priests and also, as you very accurately reported, vestments that are available online, through Ebay for example, bring almost shockingly low prices considering what some of these items cost new.

 

[ebia]

PV->
I agree about a stole, but the rest would be a monumental waste of money.

 

[PaladinValer]

PV->
I agree about a stole, but the rest would be a monumental waste of money.

But it would be a pretty and colorful waste of money

 

[ebia]

But it would be a pretty and colorful waste of money

Your dioceses has lots of money to waste on colourful things?

 

[PaladinValer]

Your dioceses has lots of money to waste on colourful things?

It was a joke. And truly, the list I gave was more a dream (I admit) then reality (although I truly meant it when I mentioned the stole, the surplice/cotta, and the pallium).

Sometimes I wonder if vestments might be a bit overpriced. I mean vestments like the cincture, the maniple, and the amice should be well within the budget of even a poor cleric, as well as the tippet, cassock, and alb (more of course [except the tippet], but within reason).

True, items like the tunicle/dalmatic/chasuble should be of fine quality, but to what extent? Should beauteous worship have to cost the proverbial arm and leg? A crosier for example needn't be capped in gold and encrusted in gems; it should look good but it doesn't have to be completely decked out. And even a chasuble could be made of good materials that are appealing to all the senses (well, except for one or two!) yet aren't anything outrageous.

A balance between extremes should be warranted.

 

[ebia]

A crosier for example needn't be capped in gold and encrusted in gems; it should look good but it doesn't have to be completely decked out.

Our bishop has to have one that telescopes so he can take it as hand luggage on the aeroplane.

 

[Timothy]

Our bishop has to have one that telescopes so he can take it as hand luggage on the aeroplane.

I haven't seen one of those... The Bish of Cy + Gulf has a screw-together wooden one for the same reason.

 

[MKJ]

Well, I think if you do much sewing you'll see why nice vestments cost so much. Even if you went for something very plain, if you invested in a very good fabric and made them with a sewing machine you'd be shelling out some serious money. Fabrics, especially weightier ones, are expensive as are nice lining fabrics that give a good drape.

And as soon as you add a bit of piecing or embroidery the time involved becomes much more significant.

I really don't have a problem, where money is tight, seeing a priest celebrate with a cassock and surplice and stole - I think it looks very nice really, classic and kind of chanel-esque. That is about what I would think a priest should have of his own, it's a reasonable cost, flexible, and then then there is no need to wear other people's sweaty old cassocks. But really well made beautiful vestments are also worthwhile, but not really reasonable for most individuals to own. And when they come matched with the altar linens it seems even more silly.

I just wondered what the rational might be for telling them to buy their own stuff. Older priests in our diocese were not directed to do this, though some of course acquired things along the way.

 

[MKJ]

I haven't seen one of those... The Bish of Cy + Gulf has a screw-together wooden one for the same reason.

What would be really cool would be one with a sword inside!

 

[PaladinValer]

Sword?

<---Likes swords