Priestly Marriage

[Caedmon]

When will the Catholic Church allow priests to marry again? There is a bad shortage of priests in America. Our parish hasn't had a resident priest in 19 years. When will the Church allow priestly marriage again so that this problem can be helped?

 

[Wolseley]

I think you're operating from the erroneous stance that if priests were allowed to marry, there would be more men entering the priesthood, when actually, there are a variety of sociological and other factors behind the current priest shortage.

This is primarily a Western phenominon, and in the northern hemisphere. In Africa, Asia, and Latin America, they have a surplus of priests, which is why we keep seeing more foreign-born priests serving parishes here and in Western Europe.

There is also the fact that there has been a significant drop in the numbers of clergy servicing Protestant chuches in the last 30 years, and they are allowed to marry. The same sociological factors come into play there as well as they do for Catholic clergy.

Whatever the reasons behind the dearth of candidates for the priesthood in Western countries, the problem is not celibacy.

 

[walkaways]

My friend attends a Catholic Church in her area, and I believe their priest is from the Philippines -- so yes, they can come from all over! Prayers for that, and more interest within the priesthood.

 

[sklippstein]

Today at 12:53 AM humblejoe said this in Post #1

When will the Catholic Church allow priests to marry again? There is a bad shortage of priests in America. Our parish hasn't had a resident priest in 19 years. When will the Church allow priestly marriage again so that this problem can be helped?

Joe i know what u mean! Our priest was 75 years old and had requested to retire 3 years ago. HE was told that he could not retire because there was no one to take his place. He's very sick now.....and should have been able to enjoy the past three years but instead was left with the responsibilities of the Church. My heart goes out to him.

ANYWHOO.....ha.....priests will not be able to marry as long as they are under the RC......

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

I don't think that priestly marriage would have a big enough effect.

 

[Bruno]

ALL men are allowed to marry as far as God is concerned, it is other men that forbid it, beware of those:

"But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.
For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;
for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer."  

(1 Timothy 4:1-5)

 

[KC Catholic]

Today at 09:52 AM Bruno said this in Post #6

ALL men are allowed to marry as far as God is concerned, it is other men that forbid it, beware of those:

"But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.
For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;
for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer."  

(1 Timothy 4:1-5)

Bruno -

I know you've been told more than once that this forum is NOT for refuting, debating, arguing or disagreeing with Catholic teachings.

Please refain from making such comments in this forum or I will be forced to send you on vacation.

 

[Bruno]

Today at 11:03 AM KC Catholic said this in Post #7

Please refain from making such comments in this forum or I will be forced to send you on vacation.

You would honestly kick me off for speaking the truth? You gave me 2 warning points for quoting the Holy Bible. Interesting, pharisees killed Jesus because He spoke the truth.

 

[Blackwing]

I agree with KC, please look at the rules of the forum, especially the OBOB. This is not a place of debate. Take your statements to the other forum and please do not use the word of God as an argument on speaking of your so called truth. there is an appropriate forum for that.

And also please remember rule that disagreeing with staff in public is a nono, please handle it privately.


It will be for your benefit as well

 

[SSPX]

Today at 03:52 PM Bruno said this in Post #6

ALL men are allowed to marry as far as God is concerned, it is other men that forbid it, beware of those:

"But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, men who forbid marriage

The Catholic Church does not forbid marriage. Priests make a vow to stay celibate, but it is possible for them to be released from their vows, be laicized ang get married.

 

[nyj]

Yesterday at 11:53 PM humblejoe said this in Post #1

When will the Catholic Church allow priests to marry again?

Well, first I think Wolseley did a good job of pointing out that marriage will not solve the priest shortage, if there really is a priest shortage. Second, I would like to point out that the Catholic Church does have married priests (in the Latin Rite), though I admit probably greater than 99% are converts from the Anglican, Orthodox and Lutheran faiths. Third, the Eastern Rite churches in communion with Rome in Europe have maintained their traditions and do allow married men to enter the seminary to become priests. Fifth, no Church benefitting from Apostolic succession (Catholic or Orthodox) allow priests to marry, rather they allow married men to become priests. These are all important things to take into consideration.

There is a bad shortage of priests in America.

I'm not so sure that I agree with this statement. My grandmother's parish has three priests in residence, has two deacons, and has had three parishoners ordained as priests in the past handful of years. Yes, there might be a shortage of vocations in select diocese, but I do not think this shows us that there is a worldwide priest shortage crisis. In the dicoeses in the United States which do not seem to lack priests, it is interesting to note that they are also the dioceses that are deemed to be "conservative" (though I hate to use that word in context of Catholicism). For instance the diocese of Lincoln, Nebraska. Now, that's not to say that all (arch)dioceses that are undermanned is a result of poor catechesis and a too-liberal approach to tendin to the flock, but I think we do need to keep a mindful eye on catechesis and whether or not we're equipping our youth with the tools to make an insightful and prayeful decision to consider vocations.

Our parish hasn't had a resident priest in 19 years. When will the Church allow priestly marriage again so that this problem can be helped?

Not any time soon, I doubt in our lifetime anyways. In the meantime, pray for an increase in vocations.


Holy Spirit, eternal Spring of joy and peace, it is You who open the heart and the mind to the divine call; it is You who make effective every impetus towards good, towards truth, towards charity.

Your 'inexpressible groans' rise up to the Father from the heart of the Church, which suffers and struggles for the Gospel.

Open the hearts and minds of young men and women, so that a new flowering of holy vocations may show forth the fidelity of your love, and all may know Christ, the true light of the world to offer to every human being the sure hope of eternal life. Amen.

 

[Wolseley]

Context is everything, Bruno----and in 1 Timothy 4:1-5, Paul was speaking specifically of two heretical groups in the early Church: the Gnostics and the Judaizers.

He was not talking about the Catholic Church, especially in light of the fact that mandatory universal celibacy wasn't going to come around for another 13 centuries. Applying Paul's words to the Catholic Church in his day would be similar to someone telling you right now, "I'm going to hold your church responsible for something that will take place in the year 3300 AD".

 

[Bruno]

This is the second time in one week that I got warning points and blessings deducted for flaming. You stole the blessings that were justly mine because I spoke the truth? (I am being a little too dramatic here, I know. I can really care less about the blessings. It is what they represent. They are to buy me an armor of God, so I can protect myself from satan. Why would you take my armor away? DO you want satan to get me??)

"Rule #1: FLAMING: You will not post any messages that harrass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest. You may discuss another member's beliefs but there will be no personal attacks on the member himself or herself. "

When did I ever conduct a personal attack on any member? Please explain. I have NOTHING against ANY of you personally. I try to adhere to everything the Bible teaches and one of the most important messages I get from it is to love EVERYONE. Why do you Roman Catholics get so offended whenever I show you something in the Holy Bible that goes against your denomination? It sounds like you would kill me to silence me if you had a chance. Why??? (Wolseley gave me a warning point a few days ago, now KC Catholic gave me 2. It is true that if I get 7, I will be banned from this board, or in essence, killed.)
If you are doing everything right, why be so concerned about what others think? How can I possibly hurt any of you? Are you afraid I am going to take your God away? The only things I preach is Jesus Christ and the Holy Bible.

 

[SSPX]

Why do you Roman Catholics get so offended whenever I show you something in the Holy Bible that goes against your denomination?

When you misunderstand Catholic teaching, then find a Bible verse that contradicts your misunderstanding of Church teaching, then you are annoying, not offending Catholics.

 

[Wolseley]

Why do you Roman Catholics get so offended whenever I show you something in the Holy Bible that goes against your denomination?

First of all, we're not "Roman" Catholics; we are Latin-rite Catholics. The former is a derogatory Protestant term for us, the latter is not. Secondly, there is nothing in our teaching or belief that goes against the Holy Bible. It might go against the Protestant interpretation of the Bible, but that's not the same thing.

Wolseley gave me a warning point a few days ago, now KC Catholic gave me 2.

The warning point I gave you was supposed to have been removed by Erwin because of an error in procedure on my part, so actually it doesn't exist. I can't speak for any points issued by KC.

why be so concerned about what others think? How can I possibly hurt any of you? Are you afraid I am going to take your God away?

No; we merely want to make sure that what is presented to all the members of this board is what we actually believe and teach, not a misunderstanding of it or a cardboard-cutout caricature of it. Applying 1 Tim 4:1-5 to the Catholic Church is a misapplication because it is based on a misunderstanding of what the Catholic Church actually teaches. (Nobody is "forbidden to marry" in the Catholic Church. Nobody has ever had a gun held to their head and been told they had to be a priest or that they couldn't marry. You want to get married, dive in. You just can't normally be a priest in the Latin rite if you get married.) Further, the way the verse was presented smacked of an obvious distaste for, and hostility towards, the Catholic Faith.

TIFWIW.

 

[VOW]

To Bruno:

It is illogical to believe that anything the Catholic Church teaches is contradicted by the Bible. Study Early Church History. Find out exactly WHERE the Bible came from! Jesus didn't write one single word. And after He ascended into Heaven, the New Testament didn't fall to earth, bound together, each book validated by a Thumbprint of God.

Catholics treasure the Bible. And the Catholic Church has been the staunch defender, the entity which has kept and preserved the entire Word of God since Peter was entrusted to the guardianship of the Church.



Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[Caedmon]

Today at 10:38 AM nyj said this in Post #11

Fifth, no Church benefitting from Apostolic succession (Catholic or Orthodox) allow priests to marry, rather they allow married men to become priests. These are all important things to take into consideration.

Yeah, that's important stuff. Personally, I don't think it's fair to force priests to stay celibate. And I know the semantics state that they're not "forced," but that's what all the signs point to for me. If I became Catholic, there's no way I would become a priest, for this very reason.

Besides, I heard that priestly celibacy began because priests and bishops were handing down big estates to their sons. It seems kind of silly to keep this discipline of no marriage for priests, because these guys don't have massive wealth anymore, at least not that I know of.

I know some people are more conservative about this kind of thing, but this is how I feel about it, and I don't think my views will ever change. I admire priests for what they do, but celibacy is not a sacrifice that I would be willing to make.

 

[Bruno]

Today at 04:00 PM Wolseley said this in Post #15

First of all, we're not "Roman" Catholics; we are Latin-rite Catholics. The former is a derogatory Protestant term for us, the latter is not.

In all my years of attending a Catholic church (both in Europe and US) I was told and proclaimed that I was a Roman Catholic. This is the first time in my life that I heard that the term is derogatory. I will restrain from using it from now on as not to offend you. Please return the favor and stop calling me a Protestant. I mentioned numerous times in the past that the only label I would like to have is a Christian. Thankyou.

I am trying to stick to a common ground we have, not to devide us. If we only preached Jesus Christ and the Holy Bible as these are by far the two most important things we have in common, there would be no divisions amongst us.

What I was trying to say in my original post on this thread is that it is good to marry for anyone. Don't you see how much pain this rule has caused in the Catholic church over the years? Doesn't it bother you at all? You would be doing nothing against the Bible if you lifted it and you would have many happy priests. Love your brothers!

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

Today at 04:09 PM humblejoe said this in Post #17



Yeah, that's important stuff. Personally, I don't think it's fair to force priests to stay celibate. And I know the semantics state that they're not "forced," but that's what all the signs point to for me. If I became Catholic, there's no way I would become a priest, for this very reason.

Besides, I heard that priestly celibacy began because priests and bishops were handing down big estates to their sons. It seems kind of silly to keep this discipline of no marriage for priests, because these guys don't have massive wealth anymore, at least not that I know of.

I know some people are more conservative about this kind of thing, but this is how I feel about it, and I don't think my views will ever change. I admire priests for what they do, but celibacy is not a sacrifice that I would be willing to make.

The Church only asks celibacy from those who are called to it by God.

 

[VOW]

To Joe:

From a PRACTICAL point of view, a priest really has no business getting married. You take a peek at a daily schedule for a priest, and he's running almost 24 hours at a stretch. And the parishoners expect him to be available for their needs around the clock.

Marriage is HARD, Joe. Look at the statistics! Right now, in the United States, about half of all marriages end in divorce. Can you imagine how difficult it would be for a priest to weather a divorce? His life is on public display. If he and his wife would have an argument, the rumor mongers would have every word exchanged spread out amongst people. A priest's children would have to be angels. Oh, and he'd be expected to have a LOT of those angels, too! To support all those halos, Mrs Priest would have to work. And she wouldn't be able to clerk at a liquor store, be a receptionist at a clinic where abortions are performed, or I would imagine it would even be frowned upon for her to sell Avon door to door!

In our diocese, priests are transferred every five years. Constant upheaval like that on a family is stressful: ask any military member! A priest's kid had better not have any learning disabilities, be a class clown, fail a grade, not make the team, get mixed up in drugs, decide to go "Goth," or God forbid, get or cause an unwed pregnancy.

Celibacy sounds pretty good, doesn't it?


Peace be with you,
~VOW