Pride - is it wrong?

[relaxeus]

Is pride wrong?

Proverbs 16:18
Pride goes before destruction,
a haughty spirit before a fall.

Proverbs 11:2
When pride cometh, then cometh shame:
but with the lowly is wisdom.

I'm not Christian, but I happen to agree with the bible that Pride is a negative trait to have. It makes people think highly of themselves and look down on others.

I often hear people say, I'm so proud of you! I'm so proud of my nation! Is saying those things wrong?

Personally, I try to avoid saying things like "Im proud of this or that or him or her or my country, etc..". Instead I say Im happy about this and that, and Im happy he did a great job and that she got the role". It's more accurate and won't give others the impression that I'm puffed up with pride.

 

[KittyPryde]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proud

Pride is a tricky word that I used for many years. Recently, I have avoided the word.

I am pleased with. . .
I am happy about. . .

From a religious standpoint: I believe feeling pride in oneself should be replaced with thanks to God.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Please define pride. What do Christians mean by pride? What is pride? Why is it wrong?

Personally, I love the word pride. I am more than happy to use it in conversation. However, I don't think I mean by it what Christians do.


eudaimonia,

M.

 

[Rae]

In moderation, I don't see anything wrong with pride. I, myself, am proud of having saved a feral kitten's life and gotten him a home. I don't go around every day bothering people with it, I don't obsess over it, and I don't see anything wrong with it.

 

[OdwinOddball]

Pride is only a problem when it is used to feel better than others, or as an excuse for bad behavior.

I see nothing wrong with taking pride in oneself, or being proud of your accomplishments. And their is certainly nothing wrong with telling some one you are proud of them.

Pride like most things is only bad when taken to extremes.

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

Pride, as in arrogance, holding unforgiveness, thinking you know better than God, etc....yes, that's wrong.

Pride as in, being proud of yourself, a balanced view of yourself, proud of your country...etc...that type isn't.

 

[Moros]

Pride is only wrong when it is counter-productive. The definition of hubris in action, I suppose.

 

[gwenmead]

Pride wrong? Not necessarily. I think there's such a thing as healthy pride, which to me means that you know what your abilities and capabilities are and have self-esteem because of that.

Arrogance, on the other hand, is bad juju.

 

[tocis]

Is pride wrong?

Depends.

Let's say I want to become a world-class sprinter. I start to train, hours after endless hours, every day, for months and years. And of course I do more than just train, like taking great care to live a generally healthy life et cetera. In other words, I go to great pains to reach that goal. It's not something you achieve by one day saying "Hey, that seems cool, I'll do it" and voila.

If after all that effort I indeed win the world record for sprinting, do I have a right to be proud of it? I'd say yes.

Now let's assume something else - that I some day become one of the fanatical literalist christians or muslims (you know what I mean). Suddenly, just because I take for granted that I'm one of the select few chosen ones, I look down on others. Is this kind of pride justified?

I trust you'll all say no.

Got my point?

(P. S. just to be sure you get me right - yes I know that by far not all christians or muslims are fanatics. That's why I specifically refer to... well, you can read it above )

 

[SedjmNeter]

P.E.A.C.E and Blessings...

proud of your country...etc...that type isn't.

...depends what country you live in.

Some people are proud of their country simply because they live there.

SHEM HETEP

 

[SimplyMe]

The problem lies in the English word pride, which has multiple definitions.

1. A sense of one's own proper dignity or value; self-respect.
2. Pleasure or satisfaction taken in an achievement, possession, or association: parental pride.
3. Arrogant or disdainful conduct or treatment; haughtiness.
4. 1. A cause or source of pleasure or satisfaction; the best of a group or class: These soldiers were their country's pride.
   2. The most successful or thriving condition; prime: the pride of youth.
5. An excessively high opinion of oneself; conceit.
6. Mettle or spirit in horses.
7. A company of lions. See Synonyms at flock[SIZE=-1]1[/SIZE].
8. A flamboyant or impressive group: a pride of acrobats.

Most of these definitions do not appear to be what the Bible is talking of, especially not 7 -- a pride of lions. Instead, what it is actually talking of would appear to be definitions 3 and 5.

Part of our problem is that the Bible isn't originally written in English. Going to the Bible we find that two different words are used in these verses. In Proverbs 11:2 the word is zâdôn which Strong's defines as arrogance, with sub-definitions of "presumptuously, pride, proud (man)". In Proverbs 15:18 the word is gaw-ohn' which is defined as "arrogancy, excellency (-lent), majesty, pomp, pride, proud, swelling". It would appear that what the Bible is talking of may be better defined as arrogance than pride, I think few of us would disagree that arrogance is usually a negative trait.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Pride wrong? Not necessarily. I think there's such a thing as healthy pride, which to me means that you know what your abilities and capabilities are and have self-esteem because of that.

Arrogance, on the other hand, is bad juju.

Precisely.

Aristotle talks similarly about "proper pride", where an excess of pride would correlate to arrogance. Proper pride is realistic and healthy.

Ayn Rand describes her virtue of pride as "moral ambitiousness", meaning to value oneself enough to make oneself the best person one can be, and shaping one's moral character into the best possible.

These two senses are how I use the word pride. I think it is a shame that pride can be used as a negative word, since this may leave one wondering if there are any good feelings one can have about oneself at all. But maybe some people don't want others to feel good about themselves?


eudaimonia,

M.

 

[Catholicism]

Which type of pride?

 

[relaxeus]

Which type of pride?

The bad kind

Sometimes, though, it is hard to discern between good and bad pride. I think we should take care to keep these things in check.

Pride goes before destruction,
a haughty spirit before a fall.
- Proverbs 16:18

 

[R0D]

Is pride wrong?

Proverbs 16:18
Pride goes before destruction,
a haughty spirit before a fall.

Proverbs 11:2
When pride cometh, then cometh shame:
but with the lowly is wisdom.

I'm not Christian, but I happen to agree with the bible that Pride is a negative trait to have. It makes people think highly of themselves and look down on others.

I often hear people say, I'm so proud of you! I'm so proud of my nation! Is saying those things wrong?

Personally, I try to avoid saying things like "Im proud of this or that or him or her or my country, etc..". Instead I say Im happy about this and that, and Im happy he did a great job and that she got the role". It's more accurate and won't give others the impression that I'm puffed up with pride.

Pride in another person relating to something good (i.e. can stand the litmus test of good based on Christian teaching) is fine. In fact it can be an expression of encouragement to the other person (i.e. I'm so proud that God has enabled you to be sober for 6 months, etc.).
Expressing pride in another person doesn't have that self-centered context and if something is said or done that measures as good and the glory is given to God, then it's good.
Nothing wrong with that.
But there are standards to hold and cautions to take regarding pride.

1 John 2:16 KJV
For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

 

[spinto]

Is pride wrong?

Proverbs 16:18
Pride goes before destruction,
a haughty spirit before a fall.

Proverbs 11:2
When pride cometh, then cometh shame:
but with the lowly is wisdom.

I'm not Christian, but I happen to agree with the bible that Pride is a negative trait to have. It makes people think highly of themselves and look down on others.

I often hear people say, I'm so proud of you! I'm so proud of my nation! Is saying those things wrong?

Personally, I try to avoid saying things like "Im proud of this or that or him or her or my country, etc..". Instead I say Im happy about this and that, and Im happy he did a great job and that she got the role". It's more accurate and won't give others the impression that I'm puffed up with pride.

I really don't think pride is a bad thing. Pride can drive you to care for what you have worked for in your life. However, I do think many people misplace their pride. I can't understand those who say they are proud of their race, or of their nation... I can't understand those who say their are proud of their sexuality.

I for example, am Hispanic, I'm gay and I'm an American.
I have interest in my Hispanic heritage (when the mood strives me), but I am not PROUD of it. I didn't earn being Hispanic. I am not conflicted about being gay and I happily accept myself the way I am. I'm a bit of alright, from my perspective . I am not "proud" of being gay though. I honor my role as a law abiding, tax paying citizen of the United States of America. But, I did not earn citizenship or the condition of America. Therefore I am not proud to be an American.

Through adversity we did earn the strong condition of my family (my partner and myself as well as the bond with the rest of our family). We have struggled for our relationship to survive against the odds and we continue to work hard to stick together inspite of prejudice and discrimination in the world around us. For what we have done together, for what we have worked for, I am proud. And that pride, I feel, is very positive because it helps raise our family up above the rest of the "things" in life. And sometimes it is important to raise, yourself, your family, or your spouse about the rest. I just puts things in perspective.

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

He's not talking about that good pride...but bad pride.

 

[Pinp]

I really don't think pride is a bad thing. Pride can drive you to care for what you have worked for in your life. However, I do think many people misplace their pride. I can't understand those who say they are proud of their race, or of their nation... I can't understand those who say their are proud of their sexuality.

I for example, am Hispanic, I'm gay and I'm an American.
I have interest in my Hispanic heritage (when the mood strives me), but I am not PROUD of it. I didn't earn being Hispanic. I am not conflicted about being gay and I happily accept myself the way I am. I'm a bit of alright, from my perspective . I am not "proud" of being gay though. I honor my role as a law abiding, tax paying citizen of the United States of America. But, I did not earn citizenship or the condition of America. Therefore I am not proud to be an American.

Through adversity we did earn the strong condition of my family (my partner and myself as well as the bond with the rest of our family). We have struggled for our relationship to survive against the odds and we continue to work hard to stick together inspite of prejudice and discrimination in the world around us. For what we have done together, for what we have worked for, I am proud. And that pride, I feel, is very positive because it helps raise our family up above the rest of the "things" in life. And sometimes it is important to raise, yourself, your family, or your spouse about the rest. I just puts things in perspective.

As SimplyMe stated in the definitions provided:

A sense of one's own proper dignity or value; self-respect.

It could be said taking "Pride" in being Hispanic, or gay, or American is valid even though you may not have become those things through any effort of your own. When it becomes a problem is when you start to have an inflated sense of your own self-worth OR you begin to believe that being Hispanic, gay, or American makes you superior to someone who is not Hispanic, gay, or American. That type of pride is more likely the kind that the bible speaks out against.

Why would that be? I don't think the biblical proscriptions on pride were ever intended to cause us to become self-loathing miserable people who are afraid to take any satisfaction in our accomplishments or who we are as an individual. But I think its exactly right to say that pride can be misplaced to our own detriment. A person who is proud of an accomplishment can use that sense of satisfaction as encouragement to try to do even better next time. If that person is a scientist, a teacher, an entertainer, a doctor, a chef, a janitor, or a farmer then their pride in their work can bring delight and comfort to everyone around them. I cannot see how that would be wrong.

A prideful person on the other hand is incapable of admitting when he's wrong. His pride "puffs him up" so that he is unable to see the need to reform himself and what may be worse yet he considers others to be the problem. Such a person is at best irritating to be around, and at worst can drag a whole country into ruin.

So I think you should be proud. You've persevered under circumstances that make a lot of people give up, or concede defeat before they even try. In the long run that will make you a more effective father, partner, and citizen and that can benefit the whole country.

 

[R0D]

... A prideful person on the other hand is incapable of admitting when he's wrong. His pride "puffs him up" so that he is unable to see the need to reform himself and what may be worse yet he considers others to be the problem. Such a person is at best irritating to be around, and at worst can drag a whole country into ruin.

This is so dead-on for those trapped in continual sin, that it is scary.
A most excellent description

The adulterer, the prostitute, the theif, the homosexual, the greedy, the drunkard, the slanderer, the cheat...

 

[ChrisCountryGirl]

No, I think it's healthy to have some pride. It becomes a sin when you think you're more important God or you think you're better than anyone else etc.