Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
THE beast/antichrist, the most-antichrist of all time, has not yet come. There have been, and are, many false prophets. But THE most-false of all false prophets, the beast's deputy, hasn't come, either.Are you defending your falsified futurized antichrist, contrived by an apostate 16th-century Jesuit counter-reformationist, contrary to 1 John 2:18,22 and 2 John 1:7?
The type of cloud that Jesus returns in is given in Jude. It's the same cloud that Hebrews talked about... the Old Testament believers in Christ that were raised with himThe book of Hebrews speaks to the Jews but believers who tend to fall weak ( thus the title name to the book Hebrews) about perseverance. Here is Hebrews 12:1 in the Amplified bible: Amplified Bible
Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses [who by faith have testified to the truth of God’s absolute faithfulness], stripping off every unnecessary weight and the sin which so easily and cleverly entangles us, let us run with endurance and active persistence the race that is set before us,
This isn't speaking of Christ's return at any rate. It speaks of believers having this cloud of witnesses and to endure, be persistent in the faith, to come to full salvation. The cloud of witnesses is those who have endured, they are examples of attainment.
I get your point non the less, when He returns ( sandals on the ground) He comes with His church ( His bride) . 1 Thessalonians 4 speaks of His church the body of Christ being gathered to him in the air though ( you can't miss the words, it's written clearly in 5th grade English), in a cloud which we already determined is a cloud ( as you put it, a mist). 1 Thessalonians also speaks to believers who thought those that passed before them missed this event but Paul in chapter 4 assures them all that nobody has missed the event and not just that but the dead in Christ ( those who died and bodies are in the ground, we know their spirit and soul are with the Lord because to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord 2 Corinthians 5:8) will rise first. So the dead bodies will be gathered and transformed into the new glorified state, then those who remain alive will rise.
Well, 'those things' haven't started yet. the things that HAVE occurred or started are not the eschatological events Your KJV says:Adding to my last post:
How can I debate with someone that doesn’t even know the type of clouds Jesus RETURNED in even exist?
The NT says this has happened.14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Partial is false
That's fine but I didn't bring the clouds up lol ! I just defined them in context from the texts supplied by you and others.The type of cloud that Jesus returns in is given in Jude. It's the same cloud that Hebrews talked about... the Old Testament believers in Christ that were raised with him
Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
I think the clouds are irrelevant in the discussion of preterism because whether it was a cloud of witnesses or whether it was a water vapor cloud has no bearing on the timing. The timing was when redemption came.
Typical futurist argument... ignore the plainest most straight forward text and then post a lot of verses that you THINK over write the plain most straight forward text.Well, 'those things' haven't started yet. the things that HAVE occurred or started are not the eschatological events Your KJV says:
Matt. 24:
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Now all this is going on now, but there are a few peoples who haven't yet heard the Gospel.
Now, Jesus went on to speak of the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel. That has NOT yet occurred.
I didn't mean to sound as if you did, I was just pointing out that we don't have to guess at which type of cloud it was, it's given to us in Jude.That's fine but I didn't bring the clouds up lol ! I just defined them in context from the texts supplied by you and others.
Scripture plainly sets forth what must occur in the future.When comes to many of the views of eschatology, I'm pretty sure I won't know for sure in my present lifetime. I do know that I've been hearing the trib, the rap, the anti etc are right around the corner for the last 50 years.
Yes, to those peoples known to the apostles. There was some 3/4 of the world they didn't know about.The NT says this has happened.
Thank you for the warm welcome! If you care to name a few prophesied events I can clarify. Before you start, I do want to make you aware that a full Preterist , someone who believes Jesus Christ of Nazareth already came, is somewhat rare and I am not one of them. So you can leave that out of your list.Welcome to the conversation !
Now, with all due respect, how do you get around that big ole bear of a fact that the prophesied eschatological events haven't yet occurred, & the earth goes right on as it did in 65 AD & 71 AD?
You entirely forgot, or purposely ignored, Jesus' words,"whoso readeth, let him understand". Jesus knew all His words would be written for future generations to read.Typical futurist argument... ignore the plainest most straight forward text and then post a lot of verses that you THINK over write the plain most straight forward text.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Everything in those verses has already happened. Some how you think YOU is the "you" in verse 9. "You" is the people Jesus was standing in front of.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
^ That is not YOU, that was the disicples.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
^ That was not YOU, you are not one of the 12 discilples. And again I say, you IGNORE the plain easy to understand verses like Mat 24:9 and focus on verses that you don't understand like the abomination of desolation. The abomination that left Jerusalem desolate was the Jews murdering Jesus.
OK, please tell us why you think the great trib has already occurred. Remember, it's to be worldwide, and some of its events are set forth in Rev. 16.Thank you for the warm welcome! If you care to name a few prophesied events I can clarify. Before you start, I do want to make you aware that a full Preterist , someone who believes Jesus Christ of Nazareth already came, is somewhat rare and I am not one of them. So you can leave that out of your list.
Blessings
There you go again, IGNORE the context of the verses because you don't like what it says. This is you in a nutshell and all futurist - "Those words can't be directed to the disciples because that doesn't fit MY VIEW of the end times. So what those verses REALLY MEAN is that Jesus knew people in the future would be reading this and since I WANT everything to be future he couldn't have meant what He ACTUALLY said."You entirely forgot, or purposely ignored, Jesus' words,"whoso readeth, let him understand". Jesus knew all His words would be written for future generations to read.
And you ignored Jesus' saying that the AOD was spoken of by Daniel the prophet. And we know the events of that AOD by Antiochus Epiphanes.
NEXT PITCH!
So it’s probably best to stick to biblical language. That is, if accuracy is really our intent. Scripture interprets scripture, not newspapers or our pet theologies.Yes, to those peoples known to the apostles. There was some 3/4 of the world they didn't know about.
OK, please tell us why you think the great trib has already occurred. Remember, it's to be worldwide, and some of its events are set forth in Rev. 16.
How silly ! Jesus didn't say"Let the reader understand" just to fill space!There you go again, IGNORE the context of the verses because you don't like what it says. This is you in a nutshell and all futurist - "Those words can't be directed to the disciples because that doesn't fit MY VIEW of the end times. So what those verses REALLY MEAN is that Jesus knew people in the future would be reading this and since I WANT everything to be future he couldn't have meant what He ACTUALLY said."
This is not a theology debate this a YOUR OPINION debate and you will always be right because we're debating YOUR belief sytsem.
But then there's the reality of the limits of 1st-century knowledge. God said knowledge will greatly increase.So it’s probably best to stick to biblical language. That is, if accuracy is really our intent. Scripture interprets scripture, not newspapers or our pet theologies.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?