Pres of the LCMS?

[JM]

There's an election coming up?

Who's next to be President of the LCMS? Will the Synod move left, right or stay where it's at?

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

There's an election coming up?

Who's next to be President of the LCMS? Will the Synod move left, right or stay where it's at?

Yours in the Lord,

jm

You must be quite young, Why are you speculating about politics? Don't trouble yourself with such questions; rather pray earnistly that our Lord, through the power of the Holy Spirit enable the Synod to call the Bishop that they need; not the one that you and hundreds of thousands of others think you need. Politics always get in the way of electing good people. We can do nothing to nurture the Church; that is the work of the Holy Spirit; encourage the work of the Holy Spirit to continue to prosper the Church and submit to the will of God, not as a person of importance, but as a humble servant..

Amen.

 

[JM]

(Sarcasm, seemed a fitting way to reply.)

You must be quite old and maybe have given up on culture, or maybe you're Dispensationalist. Why have you stopped trying to bring the Gospel to form all areas of your life? Spend a little time informing yourself about the current inroads the secular world has made in the LCMS. Please, trouble yourself to stay informed; trouble yourself as you pray earnistly that our Lord...

Amen.

You get the picture. It's not an either / or dilemma, you can talk about the leadership of LCMS in a respectful way while praying for them. The problem with the Boomer Generation of Christians is that they gave up the culture to "get along" and play nice, pretending to be spiritual by not participating in the conversations that matter. "Just pray...." isn't "go into all nations making disciples...." I'm "young" in terms of Lutheranism but not young in the faith and I'm old enough to discern the times and take action while praying. This sit on your hands mentality is how church synods fall, I'm sure the ELCA fell because too many were told, "don't be concerned..."

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

(Sarcasm, seemed a fitting way to reply.)

You must be quite old and maybe have given up on culture, or maybe you're Dispensationalist. Why have you stopped trying to bring the Gospel to form all areas of your life? Spend a little time informing yourself about the current inroads the secular world has made in the LCMS. Please, trouble yourself to stay informed; trouble yourself as you pray earnistly that our Lord...

Amen.

You get the picture. It's not an either / or dilemma, you can talk about the leadership of LCMS in a respectful way while praying for them. The problem with the Boomer Generation of Christians is that they gave up the culture to "get along" and play nice, pretending to be spiritual by not participating in the conversations that matter. "Just pray...." isn't "go into all nations making disciples...." I'm "young" in terms of Lutheranism but not young in the faith and I'm old enough to discern the times and take action while praying. This sit on your hands mentality is how church synods fall, I'm sure the ELCA fell because too many were told, "don't be concerned..."

I like sarcasm.

You don't know my background; Having served as an Elder and Deacon in three Churches, varous other committees; served on committees in or former East District, been a lay deleagate to our Synod Convention on behalf of our Congregation, and continuing to serve on comittees in the new "East Region"; saw congregations close, saw good Pastors health and wills destroyed, and witness infighting among individuals in the Church, and see the effects of "wokeism" among our members over the past 60+ years. Now also serving on our congregations call committe.

The issues of which you are speaking stem from people trying to "intervene" in the work of the Holy Spirit and making the Church in their immage rather than Gods. We spend too much time lobying to promote our vision thinking we can fix stuff. President Harrison has been a steadfast leader for your synod, but until the rest of the Church accepts the authority of the synod, issues will continue to persist. Same here in LCC; there is a mere handful of us left in my own congregation that accept not only the authority of Synod and District, but even that of Pastor. My congregation, and those surrounding us and I would wager many in the LCMS are in the same boat. In maybe less than 10 years, my current congregation, if they don't smarten up, will be closed. Most would have us keep the Church so they can be burried from it (physical building) their vision, sadly, see the Church as noting more than a mortuary chapel; rather than having a desire to see the "invisible" Church grow and prosper.

Pride, arrogance and reliance in self is the greatest form of idolitry in our Churches today; it is not working; maybe time to try prayer and humility. Good men like Prs Harrison in the US and Teuscher here in Canada as good as they are, are only as good as the Church they try to serve. God bless them for their efforts.

What we have been doing for the last 40 years has not really been working too well, and that may also be God's will.

It is working quite well in other places in the world; we should maybe look to places like Africa where the Church is growing as and example of submission to God's will.

 

[JM]

I like sarcasm.

You don't know my background; Having served as an Elder and Deacon in three Churches, varous other committees; served on committees in or former East District, been a lay deleagate to our Synod Convention on behalf of our Congregation, and continuing to serve on comittees in the new "East Region"; saw congregations close, saw good Pastors health and wills destroyed, and witness infighting among individuals in the Church, and see the effects of "wokeism" among our members over the past 60+ years. Now also serving on our congregations call committe.

The issues of which you are speaking stem from people trying to "intervene" in the work of the Holy Spirit and making the Church in their immage rather than Gods. We spend too much time lobying to promote our vision thinking we can fix stuff. President Harrison has been a steadfast leader for your synod, but until the rest of the Church accepts the authority of the synod, issues will continue to persist. Same here in LCC; there is a mere handful of us left in my own congregation that accept not only the authority of Synod and District, but even that of Pastor. My congregation, and those surrounding us and I would wager many in the LCMS are in the same boat. In maybe less than 10 years, my current congregation, if they don't smarten up, will be closed. Most would have us keep the Church so they can be burried from it (physical building) their vision, sadly, see the Church as noting more than a mortuary chapel; rather than having a desire to see the "invisible" Church grow and prosper.

Pride, arrogance and reliance in self is the greatest form of idolitry in our Churches today; it is not working; maybe time to try prayer and humility. Good men like Prs Harrison in the US and Teuscher here in Canada as good as they are, are only as good as the Church they try to serve. God bless them for their efforts.

What we have been doing for the last 40 years has not really been working too well, and that may also be God's will.

It is working quite well in other places in the world; we should maybe look to places like Africa where the Church is growing as and example of submission to God's will.

Nah, the Holy Spirit is promoting folks to get involved not just sit on our hands and pray, "for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure." Christ is the root and "every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away," the fruit we produce is God's work not ours. As Christians, baptized and believing, God promised to "Equip you with everything good that you may do his will, working in us that which is pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen."

Your background aside, I thank you for your work and understand you are tired, but "Let us not grow weary in well-doing, for in due season we shall reap, if we do not lose heart..." "Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever."

Peace brother.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Far from tired; working harder than ever, as I am gradually having more time available. What I have observed; and yes, even in this thread, are more people imposing their vision and ideals on the Church; being at odds with others equally as adamant, and the ensuing strife.

Respectfully, you come across as one who feels they have way more authority when they should be seeking way more humility.

 

[JM]

Far from tired; working harder than ever, as I am gradually having more time available. What I have observed; and yes, even in this thread, are more people imposing their vision and ideals on the Church; being at odds with others equally as adamant, and the ensuing strife.

Respectfully, you come across as one who feels they have way more authority when they should be seeking way more humility.

I wrote a response and came back to delete it.

Maybe you're right. I just don't see why we can't discuss the election.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

We don't know each other and I didn't want to seem prideful by listing my church work, my seminary training and years of leading Bible study, men's groups, etc. I didn't want to mention my training as a layreader in the Anglican church over 20 years ago or that I've filled in pulpits from time to time. Local Presbyterian and Baptist Pastor often call me to pick my brain and borrow from my library.

Kind of prideful to mention all of this don't ya think?

I would say. It makes you sound like a Christian Universalist, this might also explain the ecclectic tone of your posts.

 

[JM]

I would say. It makes you sound like a Christian Universalist, this might also explain the ecclectic tone of your posts.

Haha cheap shot Mark but expected at this point.

I call you out for a clear display of pride and arrogance, decide to keep the peace and deleted that post and you guttersnipe at me with the deleted post.

Okay, let's keep rolling.

You don't know my background; Having served as an Elder and Deacon in three Churches, varous other committees; served on committees in or former East District, been a lay deleagate to our Synod Convention on behalf of our Congregation, and continuing to serve on comittees in the new "East Region"; saw congregations close, saw good Pastors health and wills destroyed, and witness infighting among individuals in the Church, and see the effects of "wokeism" among our members over the past 60+ years. Now also serving on our congregations call committe.

I provided scripture for reasons to pay attention and pray but you ignored those scriptures in a petty attempt to keep arguing. You felt the sting to your pride because I "don't know your background." Huff, huff, huff. Why do you want Lutherans to "just pray" and ignore the upcoming election, what's your angle? Are you part of the LCMS elite and think those in the pew need to keep their heads down and do as told?

This is a discussion forum and I started a thread to discuss a topic and you have goaded and derailed the thread in each post. Why break the rules of the forum?

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Sure, what ever. My first post I merly posted what I have been taught. The Church is not an institution of men, but for men; it is an institution of God, in which we are all called to serve. God does not always give us what we want or what we think we need; He gives us what we need and what he wants us to have. Sometimes God gives us what seemst to be bad leaders; maybe to show us our own weeknesses. (I have lots). It is possible that others might have a completely different approach to similar issues, which is what discussion and debate are about. The fact that few others have posted in this thread might have something to do with a very one sided view presented in the original post.

 

[JM]

Thanks Mark. I think the forum platform is dying. I've had more engagements on Twitter about the upcoming election and many share concerns that LCMS is going the way of the ELCA. I'm just trying to sort out the landscape as I am about to join a LCMS parish that just suffered a split over liberalism and LGBT issues. The liberals were forced out.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Thanks Mark. I think the forum platform is dying. I've had more engagements on Twitter about the upcoming election and many share concerns that LCMS is going the way of the ELCA. I'm just trying to sort out the landscape as I am about to join a LCMS parish that just suffered a split over liberalism and LGBT issues. The liberals were forced out.

Good; the problem is no respect for authority. The constitution of the Synod, that of the District, and that of the Congregation would preclude such "liberalism"; there are two ways that such liberalism could be normalized in a church; they leave the Synod or the Synod dissolves itself. Scripture is clear. Period. The parish where I grew up was a free Church that sought membership with the LCMS in the 1950's early 60's. There was a sizable portion of the membership that were members of either the masonic lodge or the Orange Lodge. With the assistance of the LCMS a "Conservative" LCMS pastor to deal with the issue. After meetings and discussions, no headway was made. With the backing of the Council, District and Synod, all those who refused to renounce their lodge affiliations. (all of them actually) were publicly excommunicated. By the time the dust settled, better than 1/3 of the congregation was either excommunicated or left. Surprisingly, the Congregation thrived in the years that followed on the account of the barriers to the work of the Holy spirit had been removed. What the Church is going through now is not so different; but when councils have no presence of will to deal with issues, or refuse to support the pastor because they might lose some income in the plate on Sunday; it fetters the Holy Spirit.

 

[JM]

Interesting, I don't know if many congregations could push out Masons now, Christians are fighting on all fronts.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Interesting, I don't know if many congregations could push out Masons now, Christians are fighting on all fronts.

You have lodge members? Synod, District and Congregational constitutions either directly or by reference to the Lutheran Confessions still forbids membership. Problem with the lodge is that members who attend a Church are serving two masters, in that there are two professions of faith, one of which overlooks the Trinitarian nature of God.

Lots of big problems.

 

[JM]

You have lodge members? Synod, District and Congregational constitutions either directly or by reference to the Lutheran Confessions still forbids membership. Problem with the lodge is that members who attend a Church are serving two masters, in that there are two professions of faith, one of which overlooks the Trinitarian nature of God.

Lots of big problems.

Not to my knowledge, I was just saying it would be more difficult to kick them out now, in this climate.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Not to my knowledge, I was just saying it would be more difficult to kick them out now, in this climate.

This is why we need strong Pastors and councils and elders that support their Pastors. For most congregations, that can be a lot to ask. Disrespect for the Pastoral office, District and Synod are completely non existent in many parishes. We can thank Walther for that; were it not for him, we would have a stronger episcopal structure instead of the "democratic" congregationalist mess that both our synods are burdened with.

My former Pastor (now our Synod President/National Bishop) once told me that the most effective form of government is an informed dictatorship (pretty much what one would expect a Bishop to be.). LOL

 

[Shane R]

I would just note a general trend of synodal redistricting might be a fitting term. I was speaking to a Lutheran bishop a couple of weeks ago and he told me LCMS had received a record number of WELS clergy and parishes last year. At the same time, the NALC deans tell me most of their active enquiries for affiliation are coming from LCMS parishes. Everyone is trying to sort out where they belong and who will be around in a generation.

 

[JM]

Okay, I get it but that doesn't mean I won't need a reminder in the future.

I'm listening to a book I read years ago by MacCulloch, "Christianity: the first three thousand years." The church is messy and I'm just a layman who needs to have faith and continue to live out that faith in the local congregation instead of watching the movements of church government so closely.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[Shane R]

Okay, I get it but that doesn't mean I won't need a reminder in the future.

I'm listening to a book I read years ago by MacCulloch, "Christianity: the first three thousand years." The church is messy and I'm just a layman who needs to have faith and continue to live out that faith in the local congregation instead of watching the movements of church government so closely.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

Book Review: “Christianity: The First Three Thousand Years” - The North American Anglican

 

[JM]

Book Review: “Christianity: The First Three Thousand Years” - The North American Anglican

Good thing I'm not not to church history! Thanks for the review

One of the biggest issues I had with the Baptist church I belonged to was how radical and unhinged from church history it was. Out of the small church history study group I had two of the fellas went Orthodox, one went Catholic and I'm in a Lutheran congregation.