RC_NewProtestants
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4.2 Non Seventh-day Adventists and other Seventh-day Adventists who do not identify themselves as Traditional Seventh-day Adventists may ask questions on issues relevant to Traditional Adventists.
this is the computer age we don't need you interliner
End:
World:
appeared:
The idea that he appeared not with Christ life and death and resurrection but at some future time makes no contextual sense. It is true that end can have different meanings based upon what the end of is provided by the context. As in the end of the day is different from the end of the year. So with the context I still don't see how you are using the word end, maybe since I have posted the definitions you can now explain what you mean?
Well I don't think you made the case but then if you take it to mean the conclusion of everything then it certainly doesn't work with 1844 and the IJ any better does it? I like how the NASB version reads:I think the word end in this verse is "Sunteleia" which means conclusion or all together "finish." This goes together well with the rest of the verse which ends with " ho aiOn eis anthetEsis" which is translated " of the eons into unplacing the repudiation."
Like I said this is the same word for end that Christ used in Matt 24 when speaking of the end of the world and His second coming. It does not fit in well with just the end of the age of Christ but it clearly is indicating the end of the world itself which is exactly the time that the IJ is supposed to be happening.
Sorry, if I got you in trouble here. We can take this to
D/D if you want.
God Bless
Jim Larmore
Or as I think the New English Bibles says the climax of the ages. But you still have to deal with the "now" part of the verse as well as the "appearing" part of the verse, I still don't see how you are making those parts fit with a future application, how can they be future?[SIZE=-0][SIZE=-0] Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the [SIZE=+1]consummation[/SIZE] of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.[/SIZE][/SIZE]
Advent Review and Sabbath Herald .1900-06-12.016
How different was the true High Priest from the false and corrupted Caiaphas. Christ stood before the false high priest, pure and undefiled, without a taint of sin.
Christ mourned for the transgression of every human being. He bore even the guiltiness of Caiaphas, knowing the hypocrisy that dwelt in his soul, while for pretense he rent his robe. Christ did not rend his robe, but his soul was rent. His garment of human flesh was rent as he hung on the cross, the sin-bearer of the race. By his suffering and death a new and living way was opened. There is no longer a wall of partition between Jew and Gentile. "By one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified." This enabled him to proclaim on the cross, with a clear and triumphant voice, "It is finished." "Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with the blood of others; for then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself." "This man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God." Christ entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them." He has qualified himself to be not only man's representative, but his advocate, so that every soul, if he will, may say, I have a Friend at court, a High Priest who is touched with the feeling of my infirmities.
So just to be clear here Jim, you think Ellen White was wrong when she attributed this verse to the past by referencing the sacrifice that open up the way?
On the contrary I believe Christ started performing the atonement for all mankind at His ascension as the book of Hebrews says He did. This is one of the issues with the IJ that the church needs to deal with. The "cleansing" or setting right of the heavenly temple in the end times must be a part of His continual intercessionary work that started at His ascension and continues to the close of probation.
The time of the end is clearly pointed out in the apocalypse ( Revelation ). We know that the longest prophetic time line ever given ended in 1843/44 so this is the time of the "consumation" or "end" I think it is referring to in Heb 9:26.
You are making me more confused. You said in regard to "end" in Hebrews 9:26 that it is not referring to back in the time of Christ but to 1844 with the assumption that 1844 is somehow the end of the world.
So it would seem you either agree with EGW's time understanding or you don't. I don't see how you can agree with both and claim that it is a future application. That has been my question all along. I can't think of any commentary that would place Hebrews 9:26 in the future, but you said the language placed it in the future. Now you say that it is both the future as well as the past. Which would be more in line with my understanding which is likewise represented in most commentaries as well as Bible scholars, that the New Testament was viewed by it's writers as the time of the end.
So I still don't see the reason for you separating this into two time periods. The things of heaven are purified by the better sacrifice which was a once and for all sacrifice which has occurred. And now it seems you agree that the "end of the world" is applicable to the time of Christ so I don't see the need to create a separate time frame also. Even in Matthew 24 the end of the world encompassed the time from the destruction of Jerusalem to when ever the second coming will be which appears to be so far nearly 2000 years.
But I think you have explained about as much as you are able to so thank you. ( because frankly I can't think of a way to ask you any more questions when you say you agree with EGW's view that the verse is fulfilled in the past and still say it is future because the end of the world can only refer to the future.)
Alright Red, I now have my internet back up. So whenever they start responding I will start analyzing the response.
Tall, I was able to talk with them, with the holidays they've been a bit busy, but now should be able to focus more time studying your objections and begin the replies. Its a bit slower going than I anticipated, but hopefully they will be able to post all their replies within the next few days. Thanks for being so patient...
Red
I see this proposed debate was a big dud.
http://christianforums.com/t6650659
No surprising however.
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