prenuptial agreement

[Jesus15King]

What is the catholic church's stance on a prenuptial agreement?

 

[Veritas]

What is the catholic church's stance on a prenuptial agreement?

I'm not sure. Why do you ask?

 

[Jesus15King]

I would like to know;

 

[ps139]

I would think that they are not allowed. Because a valid marriage is one in which you vow to God and to the community that you will remain with your spouse until death do you part. No "maybes." A prenup implies "maybe this will not work out." So if you have a prenup, can you really mean the vows? This is just my guess based on what I know.

 

[ZooMom]

I would agree. I think that if you feel you have to prepare for divorce them you shouldn't be getting married.

 

[ZooMom]

The Church would not administer any prenups anyway. It's a legal thing, not something you get through the Church.

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

I don't think the Church would look kindly upon a prenup. It may even be possible that a priest knowing about the prenup would not marry the couple given, that they may not intend to live out their vows. How can a couple say to each other I give myself to you fully, freely, faithfully, and fruitfully, but just in case I don't I want to keep my money.

Seems extremely strange to me.

 

[Globalnomad]

What does a prenuptial agreement imply in your country? In some countries, not having a prenuptial agreement limits the woman's (and sometimes the man's) freedom to engage in any financial transactions. Also, you may be taxed differently, to your disadvantage, and fall under different inheritance rules.

There is no "blanket" rule, canon law or any formal directive prohibiting Catholic spouses from having prenuptial agreements. Whether is is morally right or not, depends on why you are doing it. As already said, if it is done out of a feeling of "just in case", it would not be right.

I don't think, in any case, that any priest would refuse to marry you because you have decided to sign a prenuptial agreement. Does anyone know abut this for sure?

 

[Jesus15King]

I don't think the Church would look kindly upon a prenup. It may even be possible that a priest knowing about the prenup would not marry the couple given, that they may not intend to live out their vows. How can a couple say to each other I give myself to you fully, freely, faithfully, and fruitfully, but just in case I don't I want to keep my money.

Seems extremely strange to me.

And I agree with your views about it, but prenupts can also have stipulations in them, such as if the wife cheats on the husband, or if the divorce would be put into effect such as infidelity.

 

[FlatpickingJD]

What does a prenuptial agreement imply in your country? In some countries, not having a prenuptial agreement limits the woman's (and sometimes the man's) freedom to engage in any financial transactions. Also, you may be taxed differently, to your disadvantage, and fall under different inheritance rules.

There is no "blanket" rule, canon law or any formal directive prohibiting Catholic spouses from having prenuptial agreements. Whether is is morally right or not, depends on why you are doing it. As already said, if it is done out of a feeling of "just in case", it would not be right.

I don't think, in any case, that any priest would refuse to marry you because you have decided to sign a prenuptial agreement. Does anyone know abut this for sure?

Globalnomad has the right of it. A prenuptual agreement is not only used as a cautionary document in the event of a divorce. These documents also protect the spouse's property that they had prior to the marriage. For example, say a woman wants to get married. If she was married previously, had children w/the prior husband, and that husband died, a prenuptual agreement could be used to preserve for her children by that prior marriage assets from that marriage. I would think the Church would not have problems w/that rationale. If, however, you're using a prenup as a way of protecting yourself "in case" the marriage fails, that would probably be wrong.

 

[OnTheWay]

Being that the Roman Church allows no divorce I don't think they'd look kindly on what amounts to a form of legal insurance in case of divorce.

Equally IMHO, if you think you need a prenup then you probably really ought to think about whether you should get married in the first place.

 

[Miss Shelby]

This thread made me think of the movie 'It's a Wonderful Life' when at the end of it the whole town is coming forward to bail George out of his debt by giving him all of their money, and their old housekeeper Annie charges forth and says "I been saving this money for a dee-vorce, if'n I ever find me a husband". .lol

Michelle

 

[OnTheWay]

What does a prenuptial agreement imply in your country? In some countries, not having a prenuptial agreement limits the woman's (and sometimes the man's) freedom to engage in any financial transactions. Also, you may be taxed differently, to your disadvantage, and fall under different inheritance rules.

In the United States a prenup is a legal protection of assets. Most states are what we call "community property." That means when a marriage is formed each spouse owns half of everything. A prenup is a legal agreement in which a spouse surrenders their community property rights to property that belonged to one spouse before the marriage.
For example, if you live in a house that has been owned by your family for generations you'd include in your prenup that the person you were marrying had no standing to any part of the house or it's value.

 

[stray bullet]

Can't Catholics get divorced?

Remarrying once a valid, sacramental marriage is out of the question, but isn't it perfectly possible for a couple to dissolve their legal union, while acknowledging their spirtual union... and live separately?

 

[OnTheWay]

Can't Catholics get divorced?

Remarrying once a valid, sacramental marriage is out of the question, but isn't it perfectly possible for a couple to dissolve their legal union, while acknowledging their spirtual union... and live separately?

Yes, in the US the RCC has no power to stop the state from granting a legal divorce.
I think that would probably be a last resort. I don't think the RCC would encourage anyone just to get a legal divorce and live seperately.

 

[stray bullet]

Yes, in the US the RCC has no power to stop the state from granting a legal divorce.
I think that would probably be a last resort. I don't think the RCC would encourage anyone just to get a legal divorce and live seperately.

Sure, but I'd imagine one could do that and still be on good terms with the Church. One could dissolve their legal union without committing a sin, I'd imagine

I have no idea, thus, why I am asking how the legal aspect works into this, as the prenup is only a legal issue (while indicative of a spiritual and emotional problem).

 

[marciadietrich]

Can't Catholics get divorced?

Remarrying once a valid, sacramental marriage is out of the question, but isn't it perfectly possible for a couple to dissolve their legal union, while acknowledging their spirtual union... and live separately?

Possible, but I believe there has to be a serious reason, such as danger to the spouse and/or children to justify a legal divorce or seperation even if they never intended to remarry. Divorce itself is an offense against natural law, remarriage while still bound adds to that.



1649 Yet there are some situations in which living together becomes practically impossible for a variety of reasons. In such cases the Church permits the physical separation of the couple and their living apart. The spouses do not cease to be husband and wife before God and so are not free to contract a new union. In this difficult situation, the best solution would be, if possible, reconciliation. The Christian community is called to help these persons live out their situation in a Christian manner and in fidelity to their marriage bond which remains indissoluble.159



2383 The separation of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law.177 If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.



2384 Divorce is a grave offense against the natural law. It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death. Divorce does injury to the covenant of salvation, of which sacramental marriage is the sign. Contracting a new union, even if it is recognized by civil law, adds to the gravity of the rupture: the remarried spouse is then in a situation of public and permanent adultery:

If a husband, separated from his wife, approaches another woman, he is an adulterer because he makes that woman commit adultery, and the woman who lives with him is an adulteress, because she has drawn another's husband to herself.178

2385 Divorce is immoral also because it introduces disorder into the family and into society. This disorder brings grave harm to the deserted spouse, to children traumatized by the separation of their parents and often torn between them, and because of its contagious effect which makes it truly a plague on society. 2386 It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law. There is a considerable difference between a spouse who has sincerely tried to be faithful to the sacrament of marriage and is unjustly abandoned, and one who through his own grave fault destroys a canonically valid marriage.179

 

[FlatpickingJD]

In the United States a prenup is a legal protection of assets. Most states are what we call "community property." That means when a marriage is formed each spouse owns half of everything. A prenup is a legal agreement in which a spouse surrenders their community property rights to property that belonged to one spouse before the marriage.
For example, if you live in a house that has been owned by your family for generations you'd include in your prenup that the person you were marrying had no standing to any part of the house or it's value.

Actually, only 8 states are community property states.

In VERY general terms, and the law may differ from state to state, community property (CP) is what both people purchase or earn during marriage. So, if a h/w marry and buy a home after they marry, that house is CP. If one spouse earns $25,000 in a year, and the other spouse earns $35,000 the community has earned $60,000 - unless the couple agrees not to mix the earnings (called co-mingling). If someone has property before marriage, that's called separate property and belongs only to that person, unless that person agrees to make it CP. Those separate property assets can be protected by a prenup as OnTheWay says in his example. That's a typical use of a prenup - it prevents the new spouse from asserting a claim to the other spouse's separate property. However, a spouse has no presumptive claim to the separate property of the other spouse, unless there is an agreement between them that that separate property is community property. Of course, a prenup can be used to keep CP from being CP, and that's what is generally thought of when talking about a prenup.

 

[marciadietrich]

Sure, but I'd imagine one could do that and still be on good terms with the Church. One could dissolve their legal union without committing a sin, I'd imagine

I have no idea, thus, why I am asking how the legal aspect works into this, as the prenup is only a legal issue (while indicative of a spiritual and emotional problem).

I would say it depends on the situation if there is a sin that would require confession. Divorce itself is a bad thing, if there is no reason for it or bad motivations and such, then it could be a sin to do it. Just it wouldn't be an ongoing situation if they remained unmarried and they wouldn't have any problem in regard to having access to the Sacraments in that case.

Marcia

 

[OnTheWay]

Actually, only 8 states are community property states.

In VERY general terms, and the law may differ from state to state, community property (CP) is what both people purchase or earn during marriage. So, if a h/w marry and buy a home after they marry, that house is CP. If one spouse earns $25,000 in a year, and the other spouse earns $35,000 the community has earned $60,000 - unless the couple agrees not to mix the earnings (called co-mingling). If someone has property before marriage, that's called separate property and belongs only to that person, unless that person agrees to make it CP. Those separate property assets can be protected by a prenup as OnTheWay says in his example. That's a typical use of a prenup - it prevents the new spouse from asserting a claim to the other spouse's separate property. However, a spouse has no presumptive claim to the separate property of the other spouse, unless there is an agreement between them that that separate property is community property. Of course, a prenup can be used to keep CP from being CP, and that's what is generally thought of when talking about a prenup.

You're correct, there are only 8 CP states. However, marriage law regarding spliting of property aquired during the marriage is more or less universal.
Then again you could easily run into a situation in which spouse A has no real job. So a family court judge asigns a value to their services during the marriage. A prenup is an effective way in situations like that to limit the value of those services. Some family court judges have been known to be a little absurd in valuing those "services."
It's also important to continue to renew a prenup depending on the laws of your location.