PreFlood Puberty

[Floodnut]

Understanding that the ages of the patriarchs as recorded in Genesis are literal, what would we guess to be the process of maturation and onset of puberty in that time? The ages of the parentage of patriarchs in the messianic line range from as young as 65 (Mahalaleel and Enoch) up to 187 (Methuselah) and Noah who was probably considered "Old" when he fathered Japeth at age 500. I am working on a movie script in which I am developing characters. Should we assume that they are still not yet in puberty age 25 and 40? That they are entering adolescence at about age 50 to 60?

The sons of Noah did not begin to father children until after the Flood. The first son may have been born shortly after they exited the ark, when the oldest of the boys was about 100.

The sons must have been comparable to present day teenagers through most of the process of building the ark.

What would you imagine?
An AiG article touches on the questionhttp://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v15/i2/mrs_noah.asp

 

[keyarch]

What would you imagine?
An AiG article touches on the questionhttp://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v15/i2/mrs_noah.asp

I would think that the growth from newborn to adulthood would be the same as today. The only difference is that their genetics were probably better then and the built-in time clock for the degeneration of cells being able to repair and duplicate must not have kicked in as soon as it does now. As the errors keep mounting, so the ages started dropping.
So you might have somebody at 100 that looks and feels like a 20 year old.
Could you imagine if it was the way in which you are describing and your kids were teenagers for 60 years!
Your movie would become a horror film!

 

[Floodnut]

I would think that the growth from newborn to adulthood would be the same as today. The only difference is that their genetics were probably better then and the built-in time clock for the degeneration of cells being able to repair and duplicate must not have kicked in as soon as it does now. As the errors keep mounting, so the ages started dropping.
So you might have somebody at 100 that looks and feels like a 20 year old.
Could you imagine if it was the way in which you are describing and your kids were teenagers for 60 years!
Your movie would become a horror film!

Thank you for the input. But the question remains, WHY did the fathering recorded in Genesis always begin after age sixty-five, as list as far as the listed births? No one is ever said to father a child at age 19.

 

[Calminian]

Understanding that the ages of the patriarchs as recorded in Genesis are literal, what would we guess to be the process of maturation and onset of puberty in that time? The ages of the parentage of patriarchs in the messianic line range from as young as 65 (Mahalaleel and Enoch) up to 187 (Methuselah) and Noah who was probably considered "Old" when he fathered Japeth at age 500. I am working on a movie script in which I am developing characters. Should we assume that they are still not yet in puberty age 25 and 40? That they are entering adolescence at about age 50 to 60?

The sons of Noah did not begin to father children until after the Flood. The first son may have been born shortly after they exited the ark, when the oldest of the boys was about 100.

The sons must have been comparable to present day teenagers through most of the process of building the ark.

What would you imagine?
An AiG article touches on the questionhttp://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v15/i2/mrs_noah.asp

It does not say they had no children until such and such age. It is speaking specifically about the children in that particular genealogy from Adam to Noah.

Gen. 5:15 Mahalalel lived sixty-five years, and begot Jared. 16 After he begot Jared, Mahalalel lived eight hundred and thirty years, and had sons and daughters. 17 So all the days of Mahalalel were eight hundred and ninety-five years; and he died.

Nowhere does it say Jared was Mahalalel's first born. He was just one of the links between Adam and Noah.

 

[keyarch]

Thank you for the input. But the question remains, WHY did the fathering recorded in Genesis always begin after age sixty-five, as list as far as the listed births? No one is ever said to father a child at age 19.

Here's a couple of guesses since it's not really clear:
1. They had other children earlier but it wasn't recorded. Just like with Adam and Eve, we are only told about the important ones.
2. Maybe culture and tradition had something to do with when they actually got married, such as having a way to provide for a family.
3. If people assumed they would live long lives, maybe they didn't want the responsibility at the beginning of their lives. Proportionally, we have children about the same time in our life span.

Just thoughts.

 

[Floodnut]

It does not say they had no children until such and such age. It is speaking specifically about the children in that particular genealogy from Adam to Noah.

Gen. 5:15 Mahalalel lived sixty-five years, and begot Jared. 16 After he begot Jared, Mahalalel lived eight hundred and thirty years, and had sons and daughters. 17 So all the days of Mahalalel were eight hundred and ninety-five years; and he died.

Nowhere does it say Jared was Mahalalel's first born. He was just one of the links between Adam and Noah.

I was not assuming that the inheritor of the messianic line was the first born, but still it remains intriguing that the earliest birth MENTIONED is at age 65. 65! That is a far cry from the possibility of bearing children at age 13 or even younger in our day. And we do know that the first born of the sons of Noah was not until AFTER they went through the flood, which for Japeth would have been age 101, and for Shem 99. Shem's son of the Messianic line was born "two years after the flood" but that does not exclude a birth immediately after the flood. Still they are definitely BEGINNING to bear children at close to 100. While the text does not state that it was the firstborn in Genesis 5, the births are occuring in what would be old age in our day.

So, then the readers of this thread are assuming that by age13 or 14 possibly, and by age 20 or so, probably the pre-flood patriarchs were becoming parents? So it was just like today, not delayed? And we will assume that they started parenting in their twenties and just continued at it up until as late as age 500+?

 

[Calminian]

I was not assuming that the inheritor of the messianic line was the first born, but still it remains intriguing that the earliest birth MENTIONED is at age 65. 65! That is a far cry from the possibility of bearing children at age 13 or even younger in our day. And we do know that the first born of the sons of Noah was not until AFTER they went through the flood, which for Japeth would have been age 101, and for Shem 99. Shem's son of the Messianic line was born "two years after the flood" but that does not exclude a birth immediately after the flood. Still they are definitely BEGINNING to bear children at close to 100. While the text does not state that it was the firstborn in Genesis 5, the births are occurring in what would be old age in our day.

So, then the readers of this thread are assuming that by age13 or 14 possibly, and by age 20 or so, probably the pre-flood patriarchs were becoming parents? So it was just like today, not delayed? And we will assume that they started parenting in their twenties and just continued at it up until as late as age 500+?

At first I thought Noah had children at age 500 but I see that's not exactly what the text says. Never really thought about this before. It does appear the births range from 65 to about 190. Perhaps when men and animals are in environments where they live longer, they stay children longer. I wonder if we observe anything like this today.

 

[FallingWaters]

Understanding that the ages of the patriarchs as recorded in Genesis are literal, what would we guess to be the process of maturation and onset of puberty in that time? The ages of the parentage of patriarchs in the messianic line range from as young as 65 (Mahalaleel and Enoch) up to 187 (Methuselah) and Noah who was probably considered "Old" when he fathered Japeth at age 500. I am working on a movie script in which I am developing characters. Should we assume that they are still not yet in puberty age 25 and 40? That they are entering adolescence at about age 50 to 60?

The sons of Noah did not begin to father children until after the Flood. The first son may have been born shortly after they exited the ark, when the oldest of the boys was about 100.

The sons must have been comparable to present day teenagers through most of the process of building the ark.

What would you imagine?
An AiG article touches on the questionhttp://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v15/i2/mrs_noah.asp

Maybe that's why by the time of Jesus, a man wasn't considered a "man" until he was 30. Now the age is 18. Perhaps it was 50 years of age before.

 

[FallingWaters]

Could you imagine if it was the way in which you are describing and your kids were teenagers for 60 years!
Your movie would become a horror film!

You're funny!

 

[laptoppop]

Maybe that's why by the time of Jesus, a man wasn't considered a "man" until he was 30. Now the age is 18. Perhaps it was 50 years of age before.

Wasn't the bar mitzvah age 13 in Jesus' time? Didn't that mark "becoming a man"? (I could be mistaken here)

 

[cubanito]

Interesting speculation, but that is all it is. For the purposes of a movie I'd suggest having teenagers being refferred to as 60+ years old. Interest would certainly be higher.

JR

 

[FallingWaters]

Wasn't the bar mitzvah age 13 in Jesus' time? Didn't that mark "becoming a man"? (I could be mistaken here)

I guess I was thinking about when they started their minstry. I thought it applied to their vocation, too.

 

[Floodnut]

I do not think the Scripture would prohibit conveying the idea that adolesence was prolonged during the time of great longevity. The youngest father mentioned in the text is two cases of age 65. But maybe they became mature even ten or twenty years earlier than that, age 45 say. So, in my portrayal, I will show adolesence continuing up until age 45 or 50.
You know, Japeth's voice will begin changing at age 40, Shem will start growing a beard at age 50, and girls will start becoming women at age 40 or so. I see no reason to be dissuaded from this, but if someone is able to give me a good reason to not present it this way, I will listen. I thought also of a verse in Isaiah that says a person who is age 100 at death will be considered a child (Isaiah 65:20).

 

[cubanito]

Do it because:
1- Nobody has come up with any contrary Scripture here.
2- It would make the film much more interesting.
3- I can think of a speculative biological reason why this might in fact be so. Generally, we do not die because we wear out, rather, EVERY animal on the earth has an internal genetic clock that is pre-set to cause aging and death at different speeds. This biological clock for man is currently set at 120 years, the same as Genesis suggests for post flood man. Were this clock to have proceeded some 7X or so slower pre flood, you'd get puberty at some 70-100 years old, and total lifespan at some 840 years or so. The prolongation of childhood is thus roughly proportional to the maximum lifespan. In general this is the GENERAL pattern among animals. The more prolongued the childhood (pre-sexually active phase), the longer the total maximal potential lifespan. Please note this is a GENERAL pattern among animals.

In short, while I never thought at all about it before you mentioned it, the proposition of delayed puberty is buttressed by it's rough correlation with maximal lifespan.

JR

 

[cubanito]

BTW, I find the fact that every animal, most plants and many bacteria destroy themselves by an internal genetic mechanism a strong argument against macroevolutionary ideas. Of what possible advantage is it to an individual for it to self-destruct? Again, there are some plants and bacteria (gram + cocci) that, given an accomodating enviornment, are immortal.

JR