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Predestination

Predestination

  • Every detail of our life has been predestined from the beginning of time

  • World events are totally predestined, individual lives are somewhat predestined

  • World events are predestined in a general sense, individual lives are foreknown but not predestined

  • Nothing is really predestined

  • I'm confused, what are we talking about?


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Susan

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I am not intending to troll or get anyone angry with this. Therefore if this thread bursts into *flames* any mod is welcome to use a fire extinguisher on it and close it to prevent the spreading of said flames. :) I simply want to have a cogent and mature discussion about where you, the replier, stand on predestination.
As for me, I believe that the times and seasons are somewhat predestined, but that individual lives are not predestined to the letter but rather simply foreknown by God.
:)
 

Reformationist

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Originally posted by Susan
I am not intending to troll or get anyone angry with this. Therefore if this thread bursts into *flames* any mod is welcome to use a fire extinguisher on it and close it to prevent the spreading of said flames. :) I simply want to have a cogent and mature discussion about where you, the replier, stand on predestination.
As for me, I believe that the times and seasons are somewhat predestined, but that individual lives are not predestined to the letter but rather simply foreknown by God.
:)

Hello Susan. Here is my take on the issue of predestination:

The New Testament speaks of the predestination, or election, of particular sinners for salvation and eternal life (Rom 8:29; Eph 1:4,5,11), although Scripture also on occasion ascribes to God an advance decision about those who are finally not saved (Rom 9:6-29; 1 Pet 2:8; Jude 1:4). For this reason it is usual in Protestant theology to define predestination as including both God's decision to save some from sin (election) and the corresponding decision not to save others (reprobation).
It is sometimes asserted that God's choice of individuals for salvation is based on His foreknowledge that they would choose Christ as their Savior. Foreknowledge in this case means passive foresight by God of what individuals will do apart from His foreordaining their action. But there are weighty objections to the view that election is based on passive foresight.
"Foreknow" in Rom. 8:29; 11:2 (compare 1 Pet 1:2, 20) indicates not only an advance recognition, but also an advance choice by God of His people. It does not express the idea of a spectator's passive anticipation of what will happen spontaneously. God's "knowledge" of His people in Scripture implies a special relationship of loving choice (Gen 18:19).
Since all are naturally dead in sin (cut off from the life of God and unresponsive to Him), no one who hears the gospel will ever come to repentance and faith without the inner renewal that only God can impart (Eph 2:4-10). Jesus said, "No one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father" (John 6:65, compare 6:44; 10:25-28). Sinners choose Christ because God chose them first, and moved them to their choice by graciously renewing their hearts.
Though all human acts are free in the sense of an immediate self-determination, such acts are also the outworking of God's eternal purpose and foreordination. We have difficulty understanding precisely how divine sovereignty and human freedom and responsibility are compatible, but Scripture everywhere assumes that they are so (Acts 2:23; 4:28).
Christians should thank God for their conversion, look to Him to keep them in His grace, and wait with confidence for His final triumph, according to His plan.

God bless.
 
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Susan

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Hmm. Thanks! :) Now I know a little more.
What is your belief as to evangelism? I've heard some people say that we should not evangelize but only "be there" and wait for the elect to come to us.
Some of these have even said that we shouldn't share the Gospel with anyone for fear of trespassing on God's territory (like the people that told William Carey not to go to India)
I guess I would probably be called an Arminian to some extent. Nevertheless I believe that no one can lose their salvation, and that our salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ.
:)
 
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Reformationist

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Originally posted by Susan
Hmm. Thanks! :) Now I know a little more.
What is your belief as to evangelism? I've heard some people say that we should not evangelize but only "be there" and wait for the elect to come to us.

It is a common misconception that many think that Calvinists do not support evangelism. Evangelism is one of the tools that the Lord uses to spread His Word. In fact, as I'm sure you know, we are command to "go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature" (Mark 16:15). However, my belief is that the ability of the person sharing the good news isn't the determining factor in whether the message will be received with a open heart. If the Lord has opened a person's heart to the message, then they will hear it.

God bless.
 
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Blackhawk

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"However, my belief is that the ability of the person sharing the good news isn't the determining factor in whether the message will be received with a open heart."

Very true. I look at evangelism as more of an oppurtunity to partner with God in doing His will. He does not need me at all but He choses to use me. And because of this I get blessed.

blackhawk
 
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Reformationist

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Originally posted by Blackhawk
I look at evangelism as more of an oppurtunity to partner with God in doing His will. He does not need me at all but He choses to use me. And because of this I get blessed.

blackhawk

Cool isn't it? We get to talk about our favorite subject and our faith grows and we are blessed by something we want to do. It is also oftentimes the means God uses to add someone to our family. It's a win-win situation. :clap:

God bless brother. :wave:
 
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Reformationist

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Originally posted by Thunderchild
Hell is the pre-destined and fore-ordained end of all who do not embrace the Christ (unless they repent)

Heaven is the pre-destined and fore-ordained end of all who do embrace the Christ (unless they repent)

Don't you think if something is predestined and foreordained it is not contingent on a later event? The concept of foreordaination and future contingency seem to be an oxymoron to me. It seems to me that if something is destined beforehand it is not affected by a later event, else it wouldn't be predestined. Maybe you could explain.

Thanks. :)

God bless
 
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SCJ

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Originally posted by Reformationist

Cool isn't it? We get to talk about our favorite subject and our faith grows and we are blessed by something we want to do. It is also oftentimes the means God uses to add someone to our family. It's a win-win situation.

God bless brother.

Amen! Amen!

I think it's testament to God's Omniscience that He knows the outcome of every right and wrong decision and which decisions we will make, and has known from the beginning of time so that He may work good into all situations...wow, can really blow a human mind!

So, in our limited understanding of it, yes...it is all predestined. God knows who will follow Him and who will not and will open our hearts to Him in His own time and to His own purpose. Praise God.
 
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Susan

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BTW I think "foreknowledge" and "predestination" are different things, but you all are making me think. . .
Sorry if I don't respond for the next few days. I'm going on a mission trip (as will be noted by the away status in my profile when I sign off for the night tonight) so i won't have net access. :)
See you all again soon, if He wills! :wave:
 
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Originally posted by Susan
BTW I think "foreknowledge" and "predestination" are different things, but you all are making me think. . .
Sorry if I don't respond for the next few days. I'm going on a mission trip (as will be noted by the away status in my profile when I sign off for the night tonight) so i won't have net access. :)
See you all again soon, if He wills! :wave:

Whoa, cool. Serving God is so much fun! :D

Where you going for your mission trip? I'm going on a trip in July to Marvell, AR.
 
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aggie03

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The entire premise of predestination as far as God deciding who will and will not accept Christ as their savior seems to me to be a bit erronious. All of the scripture that I can find concerning predestination is referring to the fact that He predestined those who would believe to salvation through His son, and that we are all free moral agents in the choice of whether or not to believe that Christ Jesus was the messiah - I guess that's it in a nutshell. I don't know if anyone is still watching this thread or not - but if anyone is still willing to have a discussion, I would love to talk!
 
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Reformationist

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Originally posted by aggie03
The entire premise of predestination as far as God deciding who will and will not accept Christ as their savior seems to me to be a bit erronious. All of the scripture that I can find concerning predestination is referring to the fact that He predestined those who would believe to salvation through His son, and that we are all free moral agents in the choice of whether or not to believe that Christ Jesus was the messiah - I guess that's it in a nutshell. I don't know if anyone is still watching this thread or not - but if anyone is still willing to have a discussion, I would love to talk!

Hey aggie03! :wave: Welcome to the boards! I'm a little confused by something you said. First you say that "All of the scripture that you can find concerning predestination is referring to the fact that He PREDESTINED those who would believe to salvation through His son, but then you say we are "free moral agents in the choice of whether or not to believe that Christ Jesus was the messiah." Those seem, to me, to be contradictory positions. If God predestined us to believe in Christ for our salvation how can we also be free moral agents to whether to believe in Christ Jesus? Please elaborate.

Thanks. And, BTW, I would love to discuss this with you.

God bless.
 
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aggie03

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First of all I want to say this: I was baptized into Christ this past December and since then have been sursuing the true meaning of His word found through the scriptures. When I write things on here or ask questions it is for that purpose only. I don't mean to anger anyone with the things that I say, and I only write this now because I haven't had much luck in the past with people (including myself) keeping their cool while discussing what they believe. I do think that as long as we approach the Bible with an open mind and a good heart filled with love for the Lord that we will find the truth in His word.
 
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