Predestination or Free Will

[reddogs]

If God knows every choice that every created being is going to make through the whole of eternity then does that make Him for allowing Lucifers fall, resposible for the fall of man and sin?

If God knows all of our life choices before the moment of my birth, then in reality, wouldn't that make us created to fill exactly the place we fill whether for good or evil?

Does Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit know the future of each human, know every thought of each person, and know every choice, every plan, every journey they will take throughout eternity.

Wouldn't that make Jesus' hard choices just a earthly drama to go through or performance rather than a real risk?



But, on the other hand, if God really created us with a free will:

Wouldn't I be the author of my own thought?

Wouldn't I be in charge of my own destiny?

Wouldn't that make God, one who loves and who allows free will?

Could God, wanting to share love so much, have created beings so much like himself, in His own image with much free will? Love can only exist in the context of freedom. By its nature, love has to be chosen, and to truly choose you have to have free will.

 

[moicherie]

Is God linear? If not then He is not subject to time like we are and so is able to know what is going to happen next. For example I sit by the window of my office on the 5th floor so I have a better view of what is going on down the road than the motorists who is driving along on the street below. I can see the traffic ahead so will know before the driver does that he will have to make a decision to slow down or speed up depending on traffic conditions. So because I am higher up on a different level does that mean I have taken away his freewill of whether to slow down or not?

(Hope this makes sense)

 

[annie1speed]

God's abilities transcend space and time - something our finite human minds cannot comprehend no matter how much Star Trak we watch.

I believe it is not so important we understand the 'how' as it is that we have faith in the 'what'.

 

[reddogs]

God's abilities transcend space and time - something our finite human minds cannot comprehend no matter how much Star Trak we watch.

I believe it is not so important we understand the 'how' as it is that we have faith in the 'what'.

True, He only gives us enough understanding to help us believe and have faith, we will have to wait to find out the awesome fullness of God when we sit at His feet.....

 

[LightWorker1967]

If God knows every choice that every created being is going to make through the whole of eternity then does that make Him for allowing Lucifers fall, resposible for the fall of man and sin?

If God knows all of our life choices before the moment of my birth, then in reality, wouldn't that make us created to fill exactly the place we fill whether for good or evil?

Does Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit know the future of each human, know every thought of each person, and know every choice, every plan, every journey they will take throughout eternity.

Wouldn't that make Jesus' hard choices just a earthly drama to go through or performance rather than a real risk?



But, on the other hand, if God really created us with a free will:

Wouldn't I be the author of my own thought?

Wouldn't I be in charge of my own destiny?

Wouldn't that make God, one who loves and who allows free will?

Could God, wanting to share love so much, have created beings so much like himself, in His own image with much free will? Love can only exist in the context of freedom. By its nature, love has to be chosen, and to truly choose you have to have free will.

Is God linear? If not then He is not subject to time like we are and so is able to know what is going to happen next. For example I sit by the window of my office on the 5th floor so I have a better view of what is going on down the road than the motorists who is driving along on the street below. I can see the traffic ahead so will know before the driver does that he will have to make a decision to slow down or speed up depending on traffic conditions. So because I am higher up on a different level does that mean I have taken away his freewill of whether to slow down or not?

(Hope this makes sense)

God's abilities transcend space and time - something our finite human minds cannot comprehend no matter how much Star Trak we watch.

I believe it is not so important we understand the 'how' as it is that we have faith in the 'what'.

My high school math teacher introduced me to the work of Edwin Abbott. Abbott wrote a book called "Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions." It's sort of a mathematical satire.

Abbott tells the story of characters that live in only two dimensions. Flatland. The main character is eventually visited by a creature (a sphere) from three dimensions. Abbott illustrates the frame of reference issue quite brilliantly. In short, it's impossible to understand the nature of three dimensions when you are stuck in two – everything from one dimension up looks like an anomaly as it intersects the frame of reference of one dimension down.

Asking a question about God that uses the word "time" is a little like this!

 

[JonMiller]

Flatland was a great book!

JM