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Predestination/Election

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kc5hwb

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This discussion could go on for years. It is biblical that God chose us, we don't choose him, and you can find many verses supporting this. But people continue to ask about our choices made in life, about how we must "choose" to become a follower of Christ.

I have a theory, which helps me understand this, and you can read it and devise your own opinions afterwards.

The thing that we as humans often can't get our mind around is Time. God created Time, a time-line, the space-time continuim, whatever you want to call it, He created it. And He is not bound by it. He sees everything at once, from day 1 until the final days of the 7 year Tribulation and the Battle at Megido. He sees it all at once. So He knows our choices before we make them. He chooses us, and since He is omnipotent, He can make us choose Him, or see to it that we choose Him. He knows our choices before we even have them, let alone make them.

So yes, we choose God. But He chose us LONG before time began, as the Bible states. So are we predestined? Yes. Do we elect to accept or reject Christ? Yes. How do both of these work together? Faith. Faith in an all-powerful God who is in complete control and only allows things to happen to glorify Himself. Since we are human, we may not understand how this is possible, but that does not mean it isn't possible.

Just my viewpoint....
 
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Curt

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Deut. 27 & 28 describe predestination, election, chosen etc./Gods foreknowledge of freewill choice which is a good basis, and a revelation that we can actually predestine our own eternal existance, but only of course with the empowering entrance of The Holy Spirit into our temples. there are many more that deal with this issue. A search of all The Bible looking for all the If yous, then I wills, and the if you don'ts then I wonts. You need to also examine all the references to to freewill, or willingly, and all related subjects. Also those that tell about turning away, and turning back. There is so much.
 
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Benedicta00

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Deuteronomy 30:19
This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live (Whole Chapter: Deuteronomy 30 In context: Deuteronomy 30:18-20)


2 Kings 18:32
until I come and take you to a land like your own, a land of grain and new wine, a land of bread and vineyards, a land of olive trees and honey. Choose life and not death! "Do not listen to Hezekiah, for he is misleading you when he says, 'The LORD will deliver us.'
(Whole Chapter: 2 Kings 18 In context: 2 Kings 18:31-33)
 
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jeffderuyter21 said:
Hello,

Please post all your reasons/versus for believing in Pre-Destination and Election.

**If you do not believe in this doctrine, please do not post in this thread as I know all of the arguments against**

Thank you!!
Its been a long journey for me so far, and ive only been saved for 2 years. But I was taught the doctorines of election when i was a very young christian. And God really poured out his heart to me in this area. Showed me instantly that i could do nothing good in his eyes, therefore, by myself, would be sinful till death. But God, in his mercy and wisdom, saved me, and then showed me this. I cannot deny Gods power over me, he is GOD and I am not. Oh, how great the love he has lavished on us, and to think that some are FOOLISH and ARROGANT enough to think they chose God. What blasphemy and an insult that is to Gods GRACE. Eph. 2:8-9. Grace, if earned (chosen, earned or accreditted) would be no grace at all, therefore eliminating half of the NT. God says it, I BELIEVE IT. Nothing I did, or ever will do would earn Gods grace. So I dare not say i chose God. John 15:16!!!!! "YE HAVE NOT CHOSEN ME , BUT I HAVE CHOSEN YOU."
 
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Beoga

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how can we that are evil and hate what is good choose good? We can't, God out of his love had to choose and draw us to himself otherwise we would not give a second thought to him unless it was one of hatred.
John 3
18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[1] 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."[2]
Acts 13:48
Acts 13
48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying (1) the word of the Lord; and as many as (2) had been appointed to eternal life believed.
 
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Benedicta00

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littleapologist said:
how can we that are evil and hate what is good choose good? We can't, God out of his love had to choose and draw us to himself otherwise we would not give a second thought to him unless it was one of hatred.

God grants grace to choose good. Is there any verse that says He grants only to certain people?
 
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Bulldog

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Shelb5 said:
God grants grace to choose good. Is there any verse that says He grants only to certain people?

Glad you asked. :)

Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
 
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Benedicta00

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Bulldog said:
Glad you asked. :)

Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Yeah, he can have mercy on who he wants, those that willingly reject Him especially. You are reading into the verse that God Ordained not to save certain people with out them not choosing that path.

6 [14-18] The principle of divine election does not invite Christians to theoretical inquiry concerning the nonelected, nor does this principle mean that God is unfair in his dealings with humanity. The instruction concerning divine election is a part of the gospel and reveals that the gift of faith is the enactment of God's mercy (Romans 9:16). God raised up Moses to display that mercy, and Pharaoh to display divine severity in punishing those who obstinately oppose their Creator

NAB footnotes.
 
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Benedicta00

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Bulldog said:
Can this be supported Biblicaly?

I just did support it biblically. Romans 9:16.

6 [14-18] The principle of divine election does not invite Christians to theoretical inquiry concerning the nonelected, nor does this principle mean that God is unfair in his dealings with humanity. The instruction concerning divine election is a part of the gospel and reveals that the gift of faith is the enactment of God's mercy (Romans 9:16). God raised up Moses to display that mercy, and Pharaoh to display divine severity in punishing those who obstinately oppose their Creator
 
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Shelb5 said:
God grants grace to choose good. Is there any verse that says He grants only to certain people?
John 6:44 "NO ONE comes to me unless the father who has sent me, DRAWS HIM." thats 1. John 15:16 "You have NOT chosen me, but yet I have CHOSEN YOU." thats 2. need more??? ill be happy to supply you a bible if you need one.
 
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