Pre-rational Beliefs

[brightlights]

This thread is about pre-rational (or pre-philosophical) beliefs that we hold. These are things that we believe without reasons or before reasons. After philosophy, some of these beliefs still survive and we justify them in various ways -- sometimes by supplying them with reasons. The point being, these are beliefs we did not arrive at through rational processes, but things we intuitively believe or things we've chosen to belief. We all have them. What are some of yours?

Here are two of mine that come to mind:

1. That God exists
2. That other minds exist (that other humans are persons).

 

[hairykid34]

i don't know, sometimes i am taken into believing what certain polititians are saying (i usually regret this decision sometime later) also my irrational hatred of certain other polititians based on the way they smile (and look completely fake)

 

[Bushido216]

I think the OP is more meaning beliefs about the world. Believing or not a certain politician is transient. Believing that other minds exist is a stable belief across time.

 

[Exiledoomsayer]

Okay lets see if I understand this right.

1. I believe that this world is real, and not the matrix.
2. I believe pleasure is preferable to pain

 

[Deleteriousnonsense]

That my parents are, in fact, my parents. That the dentist won't murder me in the chair. That the other driver won't veer into my lane. It's a long list.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

I think that a lot of beliefs I had when younger were prerational from my perspective, but inherited from e.g. my parents or teachers who had thought more carefully about them.

 

[sandwiches]

This thread is about pre-rational (or pre-philosophical) beliefs that we hold. These are things that we believe without reasons or before reasons. After philosophy, some of these beliefs still survive and we justify them in various ways -- sometimes by supplying them with reasons. The point being, these are beliefs we did not arrive at through rational processes, but things we intuitively believe or things we've chosen to belief. We all have them. What are some of yours?

Here are two of mine that come to mind:

1. That God exists
2. That other minds exist (that other humans are persons).

The problem is that what is rational or reasonable is subjective. Here's a real example: It's reasonable to me that a father would name his first-born son after himself. To my wife, it isn't. What's reasonable in this case is a matter of culture but personal experience, knowledge, intellect, traditions, etc all influence what's reasonable.

Another instance, for some theists, it's reasonable to believe in a god because they feel they've experienced him/her/it in some way. To me it's unreasonable because I can't verify their reasons.

 

[Deleteriousnonsense]

The problem is that what is rational or reasonable is subjective. Here's a real example: It's reasonable to me that a father would name his first-born son after himself. To my wife, it isn't. What's reasonable in this case is a matter of culture but personal experience, knowledge, intellect, traditions, etc all influence what's reasonable.

Another instance, for some theists, it's reasonable to believe in a god because they feel they've experienced him/her/it in some way. To me it's unreasonable because I can't verify their reasons.

I think this true for the most part. In my own experience I cannot remember ever not believing that God exists, as it was what I was taught from the cradle. This belief permeated every aspect of my life as I grew up so that it became my subconscious default setting. Had I been raised by atheists I'm certain the opposite would be the case. However, once I reached an age in which I began to put a premium on the opinions of those other than my parents and social group I made what I thought to be "rational" decision to reject my previously held beliefs as so much superstition. Nevertheless, the notion of God remained prevalent with me, and the harder I tried to break free, the more I found that I filtered my experiences through that spiritual lens. Eventually, certain experiences that I could not rationally explain at all seemed to confirm my intuitive precepts, and I had then no choice but to unconditionally surrender.

 

[Drathnor]

If i was raised in a world without religion i doubt that unless i started to question the origin of life i would belive in god, and once i started that process i would probably just end up an atheist.

The greater majority of people belive in god as a child because it was taught, not intuition.

 

[Deleteriousnonsense]

If i was raised in a world without religion i doubt that unless i started to question the origin of life i would belive in god, and once i started that process i would probably just end up an atheist.

The greater majority of people belive in god as a child because it was taught, not intuition.

But isn't even intuition the product of learning and experience? Obviously no one is born with presets to believe anything other than "I'm hungry."

 

[patrickkavanagh]

That my parents are, in fact, my parents. That the dentist won't murder me in the chair. That the other driver won't veer into my lane. It's a long list.

LOL; AND YET I HAVE WONDERED ABOUT ALL 3 OF THOSE THINGS

 

[Chatter]

This thread is about pre-rational (or pre-philosophical) beliefs that we hold. These are things that we believe without reasons or before reasons. After philosophy, some of these beliefs still survive and we justify them in various ways -- sometimes by supplying them with reasons. The point being, these are beliefs we did not arrive at through rational processes, but things we intuitively believe or things we've chosen to belief. We all have them. What are some of yours?

Almost everything I believe.

 

[callmeMurph]

Is it possible to believe without reasons? Even if they aren't very good ones.

 

[HappyApostate]

Possible? Sure, but I wouldn't advise it. It certainly doesn't make for a good standard. If you just go about believing things without any reason, then you have no standard by which to judge whether or not a belief should be held.

 

[brightlights]

It's certainly possible to believe things for no reason, but what I mean by this is that it's possible to hold beliefs that you do not accept because of rational processes.

I think that beliefs about God's existence are like this. People are disposed one way or the other before rationality has anything to say about it. I think that it's been pretty well demonstrated that natural theology and natural atheology both fail. Beliefs about God's existence are pre-rational and necessarily non-rational.

 

[HappyApostate]

I think you're probably right; studies of the brain have shown that most of our thoughts are based on an unconscious emotional drive to support our own position that manifests even before the rational, critical thinking parts of the brain kick in.

 

[grasping the after wind]

"We hold these truths to be self evident" because we can't prove them by reasonable objective means but only by affirming certain subjective claims. However, once we agree on those subjective claims we can apply reasonable objective methods to establish whether we are consistent in affirming the truths that we claimed to hold self evident.

 

[callmeMurph]

I would argue that all of my beliefs have reasons. Some may not all be objectively satisfying but subjectively I have a reason for everything I believe.

For example, I might believe that I exist because that is what makes the most sense to me. Is that a good reason, probably not, but it is still a reason.

 

[HappyApostate]

Then again... being reasonable, having good reasons, and having a reasoned belief aren't the same thing.

Our minds are such messy things...

 

[Received]

It's certainly possible to believe things for no reason, but what I mean by this is that it's possible to hold beliefs that you do not accept because of rational processes.

I think that beliefs about God's existence are like this. People are disposed one way or the other before rationality has anything to say about it. I think that it's been pretty well demonstrated that natural theology and natural atheology both fail. Beliefs about God's existence are pre-rational and necessarily non-rational.

Firstly, sup holmes?

Moreover, believing things for no reason should be distinguished from axiomatic beliefs -- which aren't irrational (which believing something for no reason seems to imply), but are foundational in terms of determining what we work with in creating our non-axiomatic arguments.

After all, premises are assumptions. If I say "All men are mortals; John is a man; ergo, John is a mortal," I'm assuming that John or mortality exist. Those are the assumptions taken "for the sake of argument." Unlocking these assumptions leads -- eventually -- to the solid ground of axiomatic, or self-evident, truths. "It just makes sense." In this sense, intuition is the basis of reason.