Praying to Saints

[GoodGirl108]

hello Everyone,

I have a friend who is Pentecostal and thinks that it is wrong that Catholics pray to saints and the Virgin Mary, that is that prayer should be directed only to God (including Jesus Christ and, of course, the Holy Spirit). Is there anywhere in the Scriptures that says that we, as Christians, should pray to the Virgin and to saints, or is this simply a Catholic tradition?

thanks for your help,
GoodGirl

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Ask him if there is anywhere in Scripture where it says that you shouldn't ask your friends to pray for you.

 

[Christy4Christ]

We believe the Saints and Mary are alive in Christ. We ask them to pray for us. The bible does say the prayers of the righteous are powerful. Who is more righteous than Mary or the Saints? This is the same thing as asking a friend to pray for you.

 

[KennySe]

TODAY (within the next 12 hours) I WILL post my as-yet-unwritten essay "The Communion of Saints".

I invite you to print it out and hand it to your friend.

Okay, everyone, I am committed to this now.

 

[chilehed]

This link will prove helpful:

http://www.catholic.com/library/mary_saints.asp

 

[thereselittleflower]

hello Everyone,

I have a friend who is Pentecostal and thinks that it is wrong that Catholics pray to saints and the Virgin Mary, that is that prayer should be directed only to God (including Jesus Christ and, of course, the Holy Spirit). Is there anywhere in the Scriptures that says that we, as Christians, should pray to the Virgin and to saints, or is this simply a Catholic tradition?

thanks for your help,
GoodGirl

One of the most basic issues to get straightened out in your discussions is your differing concepts of what it means 'to pray' . .. this is a real hurdle that needs to be overcome if you wish for your friend to really understand you.

Protestants use the word "pray" differently than we do . .

And given the way they use it, it would absolutely be wrong to pray to Mary and the Saints. . .

But the way we use it, it is not.

Protestants link prayer to worship, and so pray has a very special place . .it is only given to God, and to God alone because they see it as a form of WORSHIP due God alone.

So you can see why they would immediately think it is wrong when someone says Catholics pray to Mary and the Saints. . . to them, that is the same as worshipping Mary and the Saints!


But we use the word "pray" in its older English sense, to ask someone, anyone, for something, and we do not equate it with Worship . .

If you can get your friend to see that part of the problem is one of semmantics, and what he (she?) means by "prayer" is not exactly the same thing we Catholics mean by "prayer" it will help emmensly in discussing this topic further with him (her?).

That is a logical hurdle that has to be surmounted before you can really get your friend to understand where you are coming from.

Then you would be explaining the Communion of Saints without the hinderance of a misunderstanding over a seemingly simple word "pray".




Peace in Him!

edited for clarity because I just realized you are Protestant and though you are trying to explain our belief to someone else, I assumed you believed as we did . . and I shouldn't have assumed that.

 

[ps139]

In other languages, "pray" and "ask" are expressed with the same verb. English is quirky.

 

[Michelina]

TODAY (within the next 12 hours) I WILL post my as-yet-unwritten essay "The Communion of Saints".

I invite you to print it out and hand it to your friend.

Okay, everyone, I am committed to this now.

Thanks, Kenny. I'm looking forward to it.

 

[Michelina]

In other languages, "pray" and "ask" are expressed with the same verb. English is quirky.

That's right, ps139. That's a point that needs constant reiteration.

To the point at issue: the early Church prayed to the saints and has continued this practice to this very day. That makes it part of Sacred Tradition. It is not found expressly stated in SS, but the SS are only part (the written part) of Sacred Tradition.

That is what yor friend needs to think about.

 

[Disciple 3]

The thing is GoodGirl, they are more alive than us. Asking the saints to pray for us is like asking a really good friend to pray for you. They pray for us collectivly. Just because they have gone befor use doesn't mean they aren't alive, like I said, they are more alive than us.

 

[CFOCdude]

In a sense we do not necessarily pray to them, we pray through them. Just another way to look at it.

 

[de Unamuno]

To Catholics, all Christians, alive or dead, are part of God's body. Where we would ask our earthly Christian brothers/sisters to intercede, to pray for us, so we ask Mary and the Saints. They simply occupy the spiritual realm, but they are still equally part of the one body. As mentioned before, those gone before us are already sainted and unblemished of sin. Their prayer and intercession is considered to be the most holy and most powerful, though they themselves make nothing actually happen (God does it all), and God is the ultimate object of all prayer.

 

[CFOCdude]

To Catholics, all Christians, alive or dead, are part of God's body. Where we would ask our earthly Christian brothers/sisters to intercede, to pray for us, so we ask Mary and the Saints. They simply occupy the spiritual realm, but they are still equally part of the one body. As mentioned before, those gone before us are already sainted and unblemished of sin. Their prayer and intercession is considered to be the most holy and most powerful, though they themselves make nothing actually happen (God does it all), and God is the ultimate object of all prayer.

I couldn't have explained it better than that

 

[KennySe]

hello Everyone,

I have a friend who is Pentecostal and thinks that it is wrong that Catholics pray to saints and the Virgin Mary, that is that prayer should be directed only to God (including Jesus Christ and, of course, the Holy Spirit). Is there anywhere in the Scriptures that says that we, as Christians, should pray to the Virgin and to saints, or is this simply a Catholic tradition?

thanks for your help,
GoodGirl

Hello, GoodGirl.

Here you go: "The Communion of the Saints" with a number of scriptural quotes.
http://www.christianforums.com/t101297

And, fyi, The Bible is a Catholic Tradition.
For the Bible was "passed down/tradidi" through the Church.

 

[KennySe]

To Catholics, all Christians, alive or dead, are part of God's body. Where we would ask our earthly Christian brothers/sisters to intercede, to pray for us, so we ask Mary and the Saints. They simply occupy the spiritual realm, but they are still equally part of the one body. As mentioned before, those gone before us are already sainted and unblemished of sin. Their prayer and intercession is considered to be the most holy and most powerful, though they themselves make nothing actually happen (God does it all), and God is the ultimate object of all prayer.

SuperSize that!

 

[Isaiah 53]

Can they hear your prayers if you pray silently?

PEACE IN CHRIST!!!

 

[KennySe]

Can they hear your prayers if you pray silently?

Yes.

Just like God can, the members in Heaven are more alive than we.

 

[Steadfast]

Mary and the Communion of Saints



You could think of Mary as the highest member of the Communion of Saints in Heaven and on Earth. The Saints in Heaven, (The Church Triumphant) unite with us in our prayer to The Father, through The Son in unity with the Holy Spirit. It works the same with the Saints on Earth, (The Church Militant) That's you and me. You ask for my prayers and I pray in UNION with you. Is it necessary for you to ask me to pray for you for God to hear your prayers? No. Are you praying to me when you ask for my prayers? No. Why do we pray for one another then? The answer is because Scripture commissions us to do so.

Now, through our Baptism in Christ, the Church Triumphant and the Church Militant make up the Mystical Body of Christ. Since the Body of Christ can not be divided by death, Catholics do consider the Saints in Heaven to be alive in Christ and not dead, we are simply asking those who live with the Lord in Heaven to join us in prayer.

To sum up, the Church invites us to include Mary and the Saints and the Angels in our prayer to The Father, through The Son in unity with the Holy Spirit. Together with Mary and the Saints and the Angels we worship God and He alone do we worship.

I posted this in the FAQ thread a long time ago. Hope it helps here, God bless... Steadfast