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DelAnd I should trust writings outside of the Bible for that?
If the Apostle Paul never mentioned Mary [except in Gala 4] in his Epistles , why should I believe what anyone outside of the Bible says about her.? Just wondering.
LUKE 3:23 And he was Jesus beginning as if of years 30 being son as,was to Law.
Galatians 4:4 and when the fulness of time did come, God sent forth His Son, come of a woman, come under/upo
law/nomon,
Prayer is ALWAYS WITH NO EXCEPTIONS to be directed to God, or the Father, in the name of Jesus Christ. Never to Jesus, to Mary, to the saints, ALWAYS NO EXCEPTIONS to God or the Father.In the past I thought about something, that is that some say they pray to the Virgin Mary, sometimes I have heard her called Our Lady of Guadalupe, or the Lady of such-and-such place. With the doctrine on the Virgin Mary and praying to her I remembered two verses in the Gospel of Matthew that has caused concern. The following verses are as follows
"When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus." (Matthew 1:24-25 NASB)
" He [Jesus] came to His hometown and began teaching them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished, and said, "Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?
"Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?
"And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this man get all these things?" (Matthew 13: 54-56 NASB).
By these two verses, we see that Mary had four sons, James, Joseph (Jr.), Simon and Judas and at least two daughters - this comes from the fact that the original Greek is plural - by her husband Joseph. I quoted from the New American Standard Bible (NASB) because it is the most literal translation for English available today.
Through the daughters and the some of Simon, Judas, and Joseph Jr., Mary and Joseph had the opportunity to have descendents. It is uncertain under James because the book of the Acts of the Apostles, a writing credited to Luke, says that he was killed by a sword. I do not know if he married and had children or descendents. The main point is that it is almost 2,000 years since Mary and Joseph had children and the significance is that is very probable for them to have living descendents today.
This leads to one concern for the doctrine to praying to Mary and petitioning her as some Catholic branches do. If she has living descendents, then it means that any who act according to the doctrine about the Virgin Mary, then it would literally be praying to their ancestor. Yet, the Bible clearly shows that the dead cannot hear petitions of prayer and the First Commandment is clear, "You shall have no other gods before me." The ramification for this command is that prayers and petitions can be only directed to the one God and no one else, whether it is angels or saintly men and women.
I did pray to Mary a few times, but then stopped because it was pointless to ask someone who could not hear them if I did them silently in the heart when God could hear them and only He could do anything about the prayers in the first place.
In the end, prayers to Mary or saints in pointless because they can not hear them and God wants us only to pray to Him directly.
Prayer is ALWAYS WITH NO EXCEPTIONS to be directed to God, or the Father, in the name of Christ. Never to Jesus, to Mary, to the saints, ALWAYS NO EXCEPTIONS to God or the Father.
If you do not believe this all you have to do is look it up and try and find one prayer going to anyone othere than God or the Father, if by chance you do please post it and the context surrounding it so that we may all see it.
I'd personnally love to see where this doctrine of praying to Mary, Jesus, or the saints originated from?
You are loved of the Father
In the past I thought about something, that is that some say they pray to the Virgin Mary, sometimes I have heard her called Our Lady of Guadalupe, or the Lady of such-and-such place. With the doctrine on the Virgin Mary and praying to her I remembered two verses in the Gospel of Matthew that has caused concern. The following verses are as follows
"When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus." (Matthew 1:24-25 NASB)
" He [Jesus] came to His hometown and began teaching them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished, and said, "Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?
"Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?
"And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this man get all these things?" (Matthew 13: 54-56 NASB).
By these two verses, we see that Mary had four sons, James, Joseph (Jr.), Simon and Judas and at least two daughters - this comes from the fact that the original Greek is plural - by her husband Joseph. I quoted from the New American Standard Bible (NASB) because it is the most literal translation for English available today.
Through the daughters and the some of Simon, Judas, and Joseph Jr., Mary and Joseph had the opportunity to have descendents. It is uncertain under James because the book of the Acts of the Apostles, a writing credited to Luke, says that he was killed by a sword. I do not know if he married and had children or descendents. The main point is that it is almost 2,000 years since Mary and Joseph had children and the significance is that is very probable for them to have living descendents today.
This leads to one concern for the doctrine to praying to Mary and petitioning her as some Catholic branches do. If she has living descendents, then it means that any who act according to the doctrine about the Virgin Mary, then it would literally be praying to their ancestor. Yet, the Bible clearly shows that the dead cannot hear petitions of prayer and the First Commandment is clear, "You shall have no other gods before me." The ramification for this command is that prayers and petitions can be only directed to the one God and no one else, whether it is angels or saintly men and women.
I did pray to Mary a few times, but then stopped because it was pointless to ask someone who could not hear them if I did them silently in the heart when God could hear them and only He could do anything about the prayers in the first place.
In the end, prayers to Mary or saints in pointless because they can not hear them and God wants us only to pray to Him directly.
This post is VERY bogus. Mary DID NOT have ANY other children. You hear this nonsense from anti-Catholics or sites that are so. What Bible do you quote from??".
This post is VERY bogus. Mary DID NOT have ANY other children. You hear this nonsense from anti-Catholics or sites that are so. What Bible do you quote from?? Imagine Mary naming one of her kids JUDAS..this approach toward the Catholic faith is what othr faiths are confused about. When people like this come on and defame Our Blessed Mother.
My advice to you is to learn how to pray the Rosary to her,and read all about her apparitons over the centuries.
Jesus was Divine. Her task was to give birth to the Son of God and nothing more. "ALL NATIONS WILL CALL ME BLESS-ED".
This post is VERY bogus. Mary DID NOT have ANY other children. You hear this nonsense from anti-Catholics or sites that are so. What Bible do you quote from?? Imagine Mary naming one of her kids JUDAS..this approach toward the Catholic faith is what othr faiths are confused about. When people like this come on and defame Our Blessed Mother.
My advice to you is to learn how to pray the Rosary to her,and read all about her apparitons over the centuries.
Jesus was Divine. Her task was to give birth to the Son of God and nothing more. "ALL NATIONS WILL CALL ME BLESS-ED".
Where in the NC do you see the LORD commanding Mary not to have any more children?
In my orginial post I am in no way attacking the whole of the Catholic Church. I respect them quite well, so please no more acussations of that.
I speak to one point and that is the specific aspect of people praying to the Virgin Mary.
In response to the second responder of this thread, I can say this with great validity in research. The epistle of James and the epsitle of Jude, another way you can call someone named Judas, were written by James and Judas. They were half-brothers of Jesus, born to Mary.
In the Gospel of Matthew, it is mentioned she gave birth to Jesus, then sexually consumated the marriage to her husband, Joseph.
I think we have, considering everything in his post has been discussed thousands of times on this board and elsewhere. His post consisted almost entirely of non-Catholic cliches.
I'd personnally love to see where this doctrine of praying to Mary, Jesus, or the saints originated from?
You are loved of the Father
The Bible is a Divine "time machine".Well if you would love to personally see where it came from...you need to invent a time machine, go back to about 33 AD, and you will see..
Revelation 15:3 and they sing the song of Moses, servant of God,
Jerrysch said:She is no longer a virgin, she had at least three children!
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First of all, the text doesn't say three. It lists four children after Jesus (James, Joses, Jude, and Simon) and at least two sisters.
However, the term is aldelphoi. This does not necessarily mean 'brothers' or 'sisters.' It can mean almost any type of relative.
Moreover, although the English says that she did not have relations with Joseph until the time of His birth, the Greek word 'until' (heos) does not necessarily imply a beginning of something else after an end, as it does in English. For instance, the ancient Greek Old Testament says that Solomon's daughter did not have children until (heos) she died. Are we to imagine that she then had children, once she was dead?
There's nothing in the New Testament to rule out her perpetual virginity. It's an acceptible pious opinion.
Moreover, although the English says that she did not have relations with Joseph until the time of His birth, the Greek word 'until' (heos) does not necessarily imply a beginning of something else after an end, as it does in English. For instance, the ancient Greek Old Testament says that Solomon's daughter did not have children until (heos) she died. Are we to imagine that she then had children, once she was dead?
There's nothing in the New Testament to rule out her perpetual virginity. It's an acceptible pious opinion.
Why would we need an intercessor for the intercessor?He is our intercessor to God, through Him we return to the presence of God, as it was prior to the fall. But there is nothing saying that we cannot not have intercessors for us to Jesus.
Actually I did. You must not have bothered to read it.And you didn't say anything about the virgin Mary interceding to Jesus on behalf of the wedding party.
Even your New American Bible supports this conclusion.
This is an old dodge, yet it forgets the witness of Mt 1:18This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit.
leothelioness said:Why would we need an intercessor for the intercessor?Sorry, but you're not making any sense here.
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