Prayer, and maybe advice from men?

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

I hope you guys don't mind me doing this...

As you know, my boyfriend and I are heading towards marriage. We were discussing it a lot before we started dating again, but I decided to stop raising issues all the time, due to it causing frustrations in him (it was more frustrating him, than me, as he didn't have answers for me at the time, and felt bad about it).

Anyway, last night we got talking about timeframes. There was a discussion of when we'd get married a few months ago, and I thought I'd just ask him if it was still reasonable to expect to plan a wedding at the time we'd talked about a few months back.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, he says that he doesn't feel ready for a wedding anytime soon, which I'm fine with - we were talking about sometime next year!

The thing that IS bothering me, is the fact he won't open up about WHY he doesn't feel ready, and won't share his feelings on what could help him address this. I want to help him address these issues, and let him know it's ok for him to feel like this, however it hurts that he's shut down and won't let me enter into this part of his life (ie his problems, not-so-great areas, etc).

I feel that he won't do this, because it takes away from his 'I'm in control' aura he tries to show around the place. Having me come into this not so good area of his life seems like a bad thing to him (whereas to me it feels like we're getting closer to accepting each other in good AND bad times, and it's a good thing to include each other when trying to work through issues in our personal lives).

Am I over-reacting? I just feel unincluded in this part of his life, and it hurts. Not just because it could mean our wedding could be delayed, but mainly because it's an area he doesn't want to share with me. I don't want to be there in just the good times, I want to help him resolve the bad stuff as well!

I WANT to be there through the bad stuff, through the stuff that he hasn't got answers for, or has issues with. There's some stuff in his background that has painted marriage in a bad light, and I'd like to be able to assist in him resolving this.

Should I be concerned? Should I just leave well enough alone? It hurts to not be included in this, and for him to put up this 'I'm fine, and will sort this out alone' persona towards me doesn't, in my opinion, help us in 'becoming one' later on in life.

Sasch

 

[bliz]

First, since he didn't tell you why he does not feel he's ready for marriage, you do not know. The reasons you speculate about may or may ot have anything to do with reality. The reasons why he can't/won't tell you why he doesn't feel ready are also strictly speculation on your part. Be very careful about taking action or making any decisions based on information that may or may not be accurate.

Having said that...

To have had conversations about marriage and now for him to tell you that he does not feel ready for marriage, more conversation and discussion are needed. For whatever reasons he does not feel ready, they are your business as well as his since he was talking about marrying you.

Take two giant steps backwards, wait a few days, and then approach the subject again saying something like, "I need to know why you don't think you are ready for marriage." and then shut-up! Don't propose possible answers. Don't offer suggestions. Don't ask any further questions. And see what he has to say.

Bear in mind that here are some things that each of us must sort out alone. Married or single, some things are between each of us alone and God.

 

[LiberatedChick]

I agree with Bliz. Ask him why but just ask the question and don't suggest anything, let him answer you if he wants to.

It's natural that you want to be there through the good and the bad and it's good that you want to do that but some things just need to be dealt with alone. I know in the past there's been many things that I've had to think through for myself. When others have been there helping me they did anything but help as I ended up thinking the issue was resolved when in reality it wasn't because I hadn't been able to resolve it myself. Everyone does things differently, likewise everyone thinks through things differently too so sometimes people just need to think through things on their own and in there own way in order for them to resolve it properly.

 

[Princess Pea]

I agree with Bliz and Starelda. Another thing to think about - while it's true that he may have issues with marriage, you're probably not the best one to help him work through those issues. You're too emotionally involved, and I'm guessing you're not professionally trained in counseling. But even if you were - well, if he had a medical problem and needed surgery, would you be allowed to be the surgical nurse in that operation? Would you want that role?

Premarital counseling will help, especially if there are times when you meet separately with the counselor. Let a trained professional help him work through that deep stuff, and then you can just focus on being his girlfriend.

No matter how close you become, there will still be things about both of you that you will share only with God, and that's OK. Even people who have been married for 50 years still have surprises for each other, and then there are things that just aren't anyone else's business. Of course, this particular issue is your business because it affects you, but becoming one doesn't mean that you cease to be individuals. I've been thinking lately about how, even if I do eventually marry someone, there will be so much of his life I won't have shared. It seems like there will be no way I'll ever be able to "catch up," and I'm just going to have to be OK with that. That's the thought that drove me to respond to your post, even though I'm neither married nor a man. I hope you didn't mind. (I wonder, BTW, if any men ARE going to respond to your post - so far it's all women! )

 

[Saviot'Valuan]

I know I'm younger, but please do not call me nieve. My Girlfriend is 20 and im 18 in a few weeks. I give her my life and she gives me hers. What might actually be going on has nothing to do with you. Since certain information is absent, I cannot pinpoint the exact cause. Lets see.. It might be an issue of pride. He might want to start off with a high lifestyle and can't support it yet, but feels bad or inferrior because he can't give you the best yet, so rather delay time in order to save money or resources. Weddings are expensive, and depending on your culture, the entry level to society might be difficult.

 

[Saviot'Valuan]

To add, asking him why will put him on the spot. If you bring up the subject, try a different approach such as discussing a different topic that falls just short of marriage. Then eventually bring it into what you are trying to find out. Never state it bluntly, it will hurt him most likely. Perhaps say "Is there anything I can do to better us for marriage?" and maybe he will state what is bothering himself without realizing what info you were trying to get.

 

[E_Powers]

just courious how many girls before you did he date? this could be an issue because he may feel like he did not date enough.

you need to let him sort this answer himself if he wants and he needs to seek gods help. and if you help you can show him where to look for answers.

 

[Southern Cross]

Sascha, if you've made it clear that you need to have an answer about why he doesn't want to get married anytime soon, then it might be good to back off. I really liked the advice Bliz offered you:

"I need to know why you don't think you are ready for marriage." and then shut-up! Don't propose possible answers. Don't offer suggestions. Don't ask any further questions. And see what he has to say.

Let him come to you. When he's ready to discuss it, he will. But please, please recognize the warning signs in this. Don't wait forever for a guy to open up to you. I'm not saying you shouldn't marry him. But be careful - the things he does not want to talk about might put your marriage at risk down the road.

Any number of things could be going through his mind.
I'm not good enough for her
I can't live up to her expectations, I cannot be the guy he is trying to mold me into
I'm sick of work and I don't want to talk about this right now
I am not really sure I want to marry this woman
I'm not really sure I want anything to do with marriage just yet, but I love her. Just need time to think!
I'm not going to answer these questions until she stops dying her hair purple and using black lipstick

Give him a little time. But don't marry him until you find you what's going on. And don't necessarily think something in his past is the source of the problem. It could be the present. Make sense?

 

[heartnsoul]

Honesty and openness is very important in a relationship. If he does not feel ready to get married, then the best thing for you is to not marry him until he is ready because who wants a man that is not ready to be fully committed or responsible to a marriage? ...not to mention--especially if he's got reservations and is not emotionally available. Go with your gut feelings. You described your uneasiness and lack of peace with his attitude and behaviors. These are warning signs and should not be taken lightly. If he's emotionally unavailable before marriage, what will he be like AFTER marriage? Just some food for thought. There are enough hurdles, crossroads, challenges, and growing pains within a marriage and life itself, why settle for someone who is not self-actualized or spiritually mature enough to be your best friend and partner in life?

Forgive me for being blunt here, but it sounds like both of you don't even have a solid friendship. That foundation of any marriage should be centered on God and a blessed friendship. Friends are open to each other and feel "comfortable" with each other. There is a "natural" easiness and peace within a godly relationship/friendship. Your boyfriend sounds like he has reservations about getting married and (in my opinion) he shouldn't make any long-term commitments until he is ready and willing to be completely human. And by human, I mean humble and broken in Christ enough to display all human emotions: cry, anger, happiness, joy, peace, etc.

I'm not saying that he will never change (change will depend on God's timing and his own willingness to grow in Christ). What I am saying is that you need to trust more in your own instincts and gut feelings. If it doesn't feel right, chances are--it's not right. So, maybe take a step back, re-evaluate your relationship and maybe you will see things in an objective perspective.

I pray that God gives you peace, wisdom and patience to seek good, healthy relationships. Life is too good & too short to spend all your time and energies on someone else's issues. I wish you the best. Keep us posted.

 

[bliz]

If he's emotionally unavailable before marriage, what will he be like AFTER marriage?

Excellent question.

 

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

Thank you ALL so much for your replies - I'm sorry I haven't got back sooner, just been having some net issues.

All I've done since the discussion arose, was just say how I felt about his inability to open up to me - how I felt that he was just wanting to share all the 'good' things with me, but that I felt excluded when he tried to 'protect' me from the not so great feelings he deals with, and that it hurt, and made me feel like he thought I was untrustworthy.

It was one conversation, yesterday afternoon, and he basically came back with the fact that he's nervous, and he doesn't want to make the wrong decision. That may not make sense to you, but it does make sense to me. B is a person who takes a very long time to make ANY firm decision about ANY serious issue, because he wants to have looked at all sides objectively, and not put himself in any 'unexpected' position. He wants to be fully aware of what he's doing, and be fully comfortable with the outcome.

I can be comfortable with that 'nervousness' he experiences when he thinks about marriage (from what he said it sounds like marriage in general, rather than just marrying me) - it showed me that he does take the commitment seriously, and not just as an 'escape' (which a lot of my exes and other friends of mine exes described their reasons for marriage - that it would solve all the issues they were having).

We've agreed to look around for a couples counselling group - there are some offered in Australia that are just for ANY couple (not just those experiencing problems), and deal with handling emotions safely, conflict resolution, understanding each others communication patterns, anger management, etc etc. This was a big step for him to agree to doing this sometime soon - he's very much into the 'I can solve all issues on my own' normally (and feels a great sense of loss and failure if he can't) and I'm grateful...

Thank you for what you each said. I've been very careful not to push the issue of marriage lately (basically cos I saw negative traits in both of us arising when it came up - ie just discussing 'what we want in the wedding', rather than 'what we want in the marriage'), and it was just a fear that he wasn't ready to share EVERYTHING with me - good AND bad stuff.

You've given me a few things to think about, especially about when it's okay to NOT share everything with each other, so I'm going to go have a think, a pray, and relax a bit. I can handle him being a little nervous - it's a HUGE decision (marriage in general, I mean), and I'd rather him take a long time, rather than rush into it anytime soon.

Sasch

ps. For further conversation, I'd like to hear a bit more about when it's okay to NOT tell your spouse everything. It just piqued my interest as to when that is allowable within a marriage.

 

[InTheFlame]

Wellll...

First, there's no way possible to tell your spouse everything. There's just too much going on and not enough hours. That may sound obvious, but some of us (me included) have a hard time getting OK with the fact that we will NEVER know all there is to know about our spouse. In fact, we'll probably never even know half of it.

Second, I'm fine with hubby not telling me things as long as -

- the person he DOES tell doesn't end up knowing more about him than I do (God excepted, here )
- the person he tells isn't female
- it's not something that he SHOULD tell me... eg. that not knowing will cause problems for me.

 

[ScarletRubies]

Hey, Sascha.

I've got loads I'd say if we were having coffee, but as we're not, I just thought I'd pop my head in, say g'day, and let you know I've prayed for you & B. I've gained the impression from other posts you've written in the past that you want to serve and glorify God in your life - what do you think God is saying to you about this man?

I know couples (a few close friends) who have had waits of up to 7 years in one instance before God really showed them to get married. In that instance, they were separated with one in Darwin & the other in Melbourne, doing studies etc etc (coupled with the fact that 'she' thought 'he' lacked spiritual maturity... ). As for my Superman and I, God showed us so clearly that our marriage was His will - and we "courted" for all of two weeks before making that commitment in prayer (but 9 months before our marriage ceremony). God's timing, God's plans, are perfect. I really believe that when we seek His will, He reveals it to us.

TTFN,
Ruby

 

[ScarletRubies]

Came back to say that before we got married, we went through a marriage "course" with our pastor called "Prepare". Here a web link, might be worth checking out? http://www.prepare-enrich.com.au/

 

[Princess Pea]

All I've done since the discussion arose, was just say how I felt about his inability to open up to me - how I felt that he was just wanting to share all the 'good' things with me, but that I felt excluded when he tried to 'protect' me from the not so great feelings he deals with, and that it hurt, and made me feel like he thought I was untrustworthy.

Just a thought on this - I've read a couple of the Mars/Venus books by John Gray. According to him, one of the basic differences between the way men and women are "wired" is that women prefer to talk about their problems while men prefer to deal with them on their own. If a woman says "What's wrong?" and the man says "Nothing," what he really means is "Nothing you need to help me with - I can work it out on my own." If the woman keeps asking questions and offering help, the man feels like she thinks he can't handle his own problems. But if she accepts his "nothing" at face value and backs off, he feels like she trusts him and has confidence in his abilities. Sounds crazy, doesn't it - you're feeling mistrusted because he's not telling you about his problems, when he might be feeling mistrusted because you keep trying to solve them for him!

Anyway, it's a generalization - take it for what it's worth. But check into the books if you have time - they're pretty interesting!

 

[Yitzchak]

One basic concept that is crucial is that as awesome as total honesty is in marriage or even in dating. It is something a person has to choose to offer. Pressuring someone into it will only lead to bigger problems later. I know it is hard, but the best thing is to make yourself available and let him know you want to talk. But you have to wait for him to feel comfortable opening up.

 

[mamaneenie]

If your guys anything like mine, sometimes he just needs a little space to sort things out. I have learned that I just have to let him do this, to process things. Wait a few days and maybe bring it up again. Or even just pray and ask God to prompt him to bring it up.

Also, his reasons may not have anything to do with you at all.

His reasons behind wanting to marry you sound very mature, and responsible. (eg not wanting to be an escape)

 

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

Thanks guys,

It's been a pretty big learning process - learning to trust that when he's ready to share the issues with me, he will. I guess when we were just friends he was fairly open with me about everything, so I expected the same when the 'tough' issues started getting discussed. I've since realised that him needing a day or so to 'consolidate' his feelings about something, is not a bad thing, and can save me a lot of hurt (ie he could say something 'off the cuff', which might not be what he means at all!).

The last 3 posters (PP, Yitzchak, and Mama) hit a lot of valid things on the hid. 1) I'm a fixer - and that's not always appropriate when issues come up (sometimes it IS better to let him work through it and get comfortable with stuff ON HIS OWN). 2) Just leaving him with a 'I'm here if you need to talk' is more often than not enough for him to feel comfortable enough to open up about it. and 3) Praying about it, often allows a safe place for the issue to come up later, when things have cooled down, and we're back into our 'rational' minds rather than a 'you don't trust me/you keep trying to fix things!' discussions that can occur if something is voiced in the heat of the moment.

Thanks guys, it's been really awesome advice, and confirmed to me that this group was probably the best avenue to get advice from.



Sasch

 

[Gwenyfur]

First, since he didn't tell you why he does not feel he's ready for marriage, you do not know. The reasons you speculate about may or may ot have anything to do with reality. The reasons why he can't/won't tell you why he doesn't feel ready are also strictly speculation on your part. Be very careful about taking action or making any decisions based on information that may or may not be accurate.

Having said that...

To have had conversations about marriage and now for him to tell you that he does not feel ready for marriage, more conversation and discussion are needed. For whatever reasons he does not feel ready, they are your business as well as his since he was talking about marrying you.

Take two giant steps backwards, wait a few days, and then approach the subject again saying something like, "I need to know why you don't think you are ready for marriage." and then shut-up! Don't propose possible answers. Don't offer suggestions. Don't ask any further questions. And see what he has to say.

Bear in mind that here are some things that each of us must sort out alone. Married or single, some things are between each of us alone and God.

excellent advice

I'm married and there are still some things that DH leaves me out of...it's between him and God...

Of course after he's worked through it, he'll usually share...Part of being a good wife is allowing that there are going to be times that you will be left out of the loop of his mind...those are the times you need to be quiet, ready to listen, and not yammering...just praying for him

Huggles

 

[Yitzchak]

I am sure that if the two of you are in agreement to have the type of closeness that shares everything that you will get that. Even in our relationship with God who is perfect ,we have a process of opening up more and more. There can be times in a marriage that there is an unhealthy pulling away. But even in the most healthy relationships the pursuit of emotional intimacy is a process. I can only connect with my wife to the degree that I have resolved my own personal issues and dealt with the Lord about them.

It is not that intimacy is not realistic in marriage. Just that it is a process and not as one time decision. That process is sometimes " three steps forward and two steps backwards. " The thing to look at is the long run - a year from now , will you be closer or furthur apart??