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Power is made perfect in weakness.

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I don't have the theological knowledge, but I know God is able to overcome this in you.
I was delivered from smoking many years ago. I was a new believer and I gave it to Him and I never experienced a craving after that. I struggle with other things. I know that things are not always gone in a moment.
Have you tried fasting? It's a time of denying the flesh and seeking God. We place ourselves in His hands and He works on our hearts. He can by-pass the brain or He can help transform our minds or (We let Him do whatever He wants knowing that He will do the best thing for us.)
 
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Forge3

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I don't have the theological knowledge, but I know God is able to overcome this in you.
I was delivered from smoking many years ago. I was a new believer and I gave it to Him and I never experienced a craving after that. I struggle with other things. I know that things are not always gone in a moment.
Have you tried fasting? It's a time of denying the flesh and seeking God. We place ourselves in His hands and He works on our hearts. He can by-pass the brain or He can help transform our minds or (We let Him do whatever He wants knowing that He will do the best thing for us.)

I have fasted before. And my idea of power made perfect in weakness is when it has me lean on God all the more and open up to the fullness of His grace. Still a struggle. Still there seem to be some tethers on my heart. Bumps along the road of conversion. I will consider fasting.
 
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Noxot

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Hello :)

I am wondering what people's understanding of this means. I have my own understanding and yet would like and am open to other insights or understanding. The reason I am asking is because I am an alcoholic and praying and endeavoring to be sober everyday.

should evil come that good may prosper?
should we do evil so that good may come?
does goodness need evil?
why does God allow evil to exist?

what is power? some say "power corrupts" is this true?

is weakness the opposite of power?

this certain kind of power that is not perfect.. what is it? the quote makes light of, "power is made perfect..." so then this power is not perfect.

there is a power that is perfect and a power that is not perfect.

we must try and learn what exactly "power" means, and what "perfect" means. and what "weakness" means

power that is not perfect is not godly power, for godly power is full and perfection.

what kind of "perfect power" would corrupt? I highly doubt such a thing would do that in and of itself.

what kind of weakness makes non-perfect power, perfect? would this weakness have to be perfect to make other things perfect? it does seem logical.

so then there must be a weakness that is not perfect and there must be a weakness that is perfect.

is your weakness making you perfect? can evil make you perfect?
 
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x141

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Yes ... there are two kinds of weakeness' as there are two kinds of cities, mountains, woman, men, father's, kingdom's, etc.

And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

I heard these words again last year around this time (literially) but how I heard them had changed. I heard it as Behold, They have become like us. We are more like our Father that we now or will ever truly comprehend, ths is as an ascending forever. For Jesus, He began to see himself in the book and at the jordan he became the book and then the book began to open so that the life of the father could be seen as John said, they beheld it, hung out witrh him but had no understanding what he was about to reveal that this truth was in them from, not just the beginning, but from before the beginning. The beginning is as the feast of pentecost, the feast that is between a sea and a river, or two narrative's. The mediator between Egypt and the Land or Earth and Heaven.

I believe in free will to a point where our will becomes free.

This is how we free or become jubilee to those around us, by walking in his word or land, spirit, etc. But these things are an ever present truth that we are turning to behold.
 
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Tigger45

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The Lord delivered me instantaniously from marijuana. For me I believe it's because He filled the void I was using maijuana for. God gave me acceptence and direction therefore eliminating the need to smoke. I'm praying that you can glean something from my experience. If not I'm praying anyway :{)
 
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gracelandz

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Hello :)

I am wondering what people's understanding of this means. I have my own understanding and yet would like and am open to other insights or understanding. The reason I am asking is because I am an alcoholic and praying and endeavoring to be sober everyday.

The original context that I know of about this - is the apostle Paul pleading with God to take a way what he describes as a thorn in his flesh, which apart from the torment he suffers - also seems to have a positive effect of keeping Paul from getting conceited.

2 Corinthians 12:8-10
Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.


I don't know what that thorn is and what it means to the apostle Paul. Its meaning and application is likely going to be different for each one of us, as we're all different but the principle should remain the same - God's grace is sufficient... not lacking.

For me, this scripture has encouraged me many times in the past (and shall continue to do so) when my lack of ability, lack of resources, or lack of confidence/courage hinders me. This passage speaks to me when I'm at my wits end with no means of continuing in an excellent manner. When I'm disheartened, I remind myself that God is not only watching over me, but He is already at work to resolve my situation supernaturally.

This is my understanding of it, but I've actually experienced this many times so I know it's true. When I've achieved what I know was impossible, there is no room for pride to well up in my heart... and the only response that comes out of me is worship and gratitude. It's a very humbling thing to experience God's hand at work in spite of my frailty. I hope this helps and that you would find an inner strength you thought you never had.

God bless...
 
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weariedsoul

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Cool topic Forge. I was edified by it. Thank you.

Our inability to obey God which condemns us is weakness. The scripture you are referring to says Gods strength is made perfect in our weakness. Paul seems to refer to suffering as weakness in 2 Co 12:9-10, It sounds like he refers to humility as well. Paul says he takes pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake. In Php 4 at the bottom of the page Paul says to rejoice in the lord always, and that he has learned to be content in all situations, to be full and hungry, both to abound and suffer need. In this scripture Paul attaches 2 promises of obtaining Gods peace by following Pauls example.


2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2Co 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

in·fir·mi·ty
Physical or mental weakness: "the infirmities of old age".
More info »Merriam-Webster - The Free Dictionary

reproaches
3rd person singular present, plural of re·proach
Verb:
Address (someone) in such a way as to express disapproval or disappointment.
Noun:
The expression of disapproval or disappointment.
More info »Merriam-Webster - The Free Dictionary

distresses
3rd person singular present of dis·tress (Verb)
Verb:
Cause (someone) anxiety, sorrow, or pain.
Give (furniture, leather, or clothing) simulated marks of age and wear.
More info »



Php 4:4 Rejoice in the Lord alway: and again I say, Rejoice.
Php 4:5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.
Php 4:6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
Php 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
hp 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
Php 4:9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.
Php 4:10 But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly, that now at the last your care of me hath flourished again; wherein ye were also careful, but ye lacked opportunity.
Php 4:11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.
Php 4:12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.

Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
 
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KimberlyAA

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One of the reasons biblical Christianity has to be so drastically distorted in order to sell it to mass markets is that the market wants power to escape weakness in leisure, but Christianity offers power to endure weakness in love.

Jesus said [in response to Paul's prayer], 'My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.' IN weakness? What the market wants is escape from weakness, not power in weakness. But to meet that felt need in the market the message must be distorted—and often is.

But by distorting the message to make it more immediately appealing, two things are lost:

1. the truth of the message is lost, and
2. the chance to meet the really deep need that we all have in the midst of adversity is lost.

What are the weaknesses Paul has in mind here when he quotes Jesus as saying in verse 9, "My power is made perfect in weakness"? And then says, "I will all the more gladly boast in my weaknesses"? And then again in verse 10 says, "For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses"?

I think the safest way to answer is to let the four other words in verse 10 fill out what he has in mind. What he summarizes as weaknesses in verse 9 he spells out in four other words in verse 10: insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities.

1. Insults—when people think of clever ways of making your faith or your lifestyle or your words look stupid or weird or inconsistent.
2. Hardships—circumstances forced upon you, reversals of fortune against your will. This could refer to any situation where you feel trapped. You didn't plan it or think it would be this way. But there you are, and it's hard.
3. Persecutions—wounds or abuses or painful circumstances or acts of prejudice or exploitation from people because of your Christian faith or your Christian moral commitments. It's when you are not treated fairly. You get a raw deal.
4. Calamities—the idea is one of pressure or crushing or being weighed down; circumstances that tend to overcome you with stress and tension.

So you can see that what Paul has in mind here is not sin. He is not talking about a kind of behavior—like we might say he has a weakness for lust; or she has a weakness for overeating. Paul is not talking about bad choices that we make. He is not saying, The power of Christ is perfected in my bad choices. Or: I will all the more gladly boast of my bad choices. Weaknesses here are not imperfect behaviors.

They are circumstances and situations and experiences and wounds that make us look weak; things we would probably get rid of if we had the human strength.

1. If we were "strong," we might return the insult with such an effective put down that the opponent would wither and everyone would admire our wit and cleverness.
2. If we were "strong," we might take charge of our own fortune and turn back the emerging hardship and change circumstances so that they go the way we want them to and not force us into discomfort.
3. If we were "strong," we might turn back the persecution so quickly and so decisively that no one would mess with us again.
4. If we were "strong," we might use our resources to get out of the calamity or distress as fast as possible, or take charge of the situation and marshal our own resources so masterfully as to minimize its pressure.

But in reality we don't usually have that kind of human strength, and even when we may have it, Christians don't use it the way the world does. Jesus tells us not to return evil for evil (Matthew 5:38–42). Paul said in 1 Corinthians 4:12–13, "When reviled, we bless; when persecuted, we endure; when slandered, we try to conciliate." And then he added, "We have become like the refuse of the world, the off-scouring of all things." In other words, this kind of lifestyle, this kind of response to abuse, looks weak and beggarly and feeble and anemic and inept—at least it looks that way to those who thrive on pride and equate power with the best come back.

Weaknesses are not sins but experiences and situations and circumstances and wounds that are hard to bear and that we can't remove either because they are beyond our control or because love dictates that we not return evil for evil.

What is the source of such weaknesses? Do they come from Satan or from God? Or both?

Let's take Paul's thorn in the flesh as an example and see what his answer is. In verses 1–4 Paul describes what amazing revelations of God's glory he had been given—he was caught up into Paradise and heard things that cannot be told on earth (vv. 3–4).

How easy it would have been for Paul to think that he was already rising above the ordinary hardships and troubles of earthly life because he was given such a privilege. But verse 7 shows what actually happened: "To keep me from being too elated by the abundance of revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan, to harass me, to keep me from exalting myself."

Now this thorn in the flesh is one of the weaknesses he is talking about. We know this because when he prays that God would take it away in verse 8, the Lord answers in verse 9, "My power is made perfect in weakness." So the thorn in the flesh is one of the weaknesses we are talking about.

And where did it come from? Paul calls it a "messenger of Satan" given to harass him. So one clear answer is that some weaknesses come from Satan. Satan afflicts the children of God through his angels or messengers. His aim is destruction and death and misery.

But it is not that simple is it? Satan is not the only one at work here. God is at work. This thorn is not just the work of Satan to destroy. It is the work of God to save.

We know this for two reasons. First, because Paul describes the purpose for the thorn in terms of preventing pride. But Satan's whole design is to produce pride not prevent it. That's how he kills: either with pride in what we have done, or despair over what we haven't done. Paul's revelations in Paradise made him vulnerable to pride and self-exaltation. So God uses the hostile intentions of Satan for Paul's holiness. Satan wanted to make Paul miserable and turn him away from the faith and the ministry and the value of the visions he had seen. But God wanted to make Paul humble and turn him away from self-exaltation. So God appointed the thorn of Satan for the work of salvation.

The other reason we know the thorn is God's work and not just Satan's is that when Paul prays in verse 8 that God would take the thorn away, the Lord says, No, because my power is made perfect in this weakness. In other words, I have a purpose in what is happening to you. This is not ultimately Satan's destroying work. It is ultimately my saving, sanctifying work.

Just like it was with Job—God permits Satan to afflict his righteous servant, and turns the affliction for his good purposes. (See also Luke 22:31–32.)

So the answer to our second question is that the source of our weaknesses may sometimes be Satan and his destructive designs for us; but always our weaknesses are designed by God for our good. This is why the truth of God's sovereign grace is so precious in the midst of hardship and calamity. God is in control of Satan. Satan does nothing to God's children that God does not design with infinite skill and love for our good.

What is the purpose of such weaknesses? Is there a goal or an aim for why the weaknesses come? Why insults, hardships, persecutions, calamities, troubles? Why can't I find a job? Why am I trapped in this awful marriage? Why does my dad have cancer? Why can't I have children? Why do I have no friends? Why is nothing working in my life?

Paul gives three brief answers about his own experience and I think they are tremendously important for us to live by.

First, he says that Satan has the purpose to buffet you or harass you. And so it is OK to pray for relief. That's what Paul did until he got word from the Lord. Pain is not a good thing in itself. God does not delight in your suffering. Satan does and he must be resisted.

Second, God's purpose over and through Satan's harassment is our humility. Paul was in danger of pride and self-exaltation and God took steps to keep him humble. This is an utterly strange thing in our self-saturated age. God thinks humility is more important than comfort. Humility is more important than freedom from pain. He will give us a mountain top experience in Paradise, and then bring us through anguish of soul lest we think that we have risen above the need for total reliance on his grace. So his purpose is our humility and lowliness and reliance on him.

Finally, God's purpose in our weaknesses is to glorify the grace and power of his Son. This is the main point of verses 9–10. Jesus says, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." God's design is to make you a showcase for Jesus' power. But not necessarily the way the market demands: not by getting rid of all our weaknesses; but by giving strength to endure and even rejoice in tribulation.

Let God be God here. If he wills to show the perfection of his Son's power in our weakness instead of by our escape from weakness, then he knows best; trust him. Hebrews 11 is a good guide here. It says that by faith some escaped the edge of the sword and by faith some were killed by the sword. By faith some stopped the mouths of lions, and by faith others were sawn asunder. By faith some were mighty in war, and by faith others suffered chains and imprisonment (see also Philippians 4:11–13).

The ultimate purpose of God in our weakness is to glorify the kind of power that moved Christ to the cross and kept him there until the work of love was done. Paul said that Christ crucified was foolishness to the Greeks, a stumbling block to the Jews, but to those who are called it is the power of God and the wisdom of God (1 Corinthians 1:23f).

The deepest need that you and I have in weakness and adversity is not quick relief, but the well-grounded confidence that what is happening to us is part of the greatest purpose of God in the universe—the glorification of the grace and power of his Son—the grace and power that bore him to the cross and kept him there until the work of love was done. That's what God is building into our lives. That is the meaning of weakness, insults, hardships, persecution, calamity.
 
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weariedsoul

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Heb 11:32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
Heb 11:33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
Heb 11:34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
 
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x141

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Hello :)

I am wondering what people's understanding of this means. I have my own understanding and yet would like and am open to other insights or understanding. The reason I am asking is because I am an alcoholic and praying and endeavoring to be sober everyday.

It is a battle of the Will, and in it, an either a gaining, or the losing of our soul.

Joh_3:30 He must increase, but I decrease.

If it is an, I decrease so that he increase's, this is still of our own will and of an establishing of our own righteousness, and not a looking to the gospel of Christ, which is the power of God.

Christ is as much the person of God as it is the path that we walk, a path no fowl knows of and no vulture's eye has ever seen. Jesus followed the path that was layed out before him even as he was that path or that way, that truth, that life.

To give up your soul is to give up your perception of not only who you are but who God is as well, that he might open or reveal his son in us, by whom the Father is made known unto us, in us.
 
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karen05037

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Hello :)

I am wondering what people's understanding of this means. I have my own understanding and yet would like and am open to other insights or understanding. The reason I am asking is because I am an alcoholic and praying and endeavoring to be sober everyday.






A brother of mine was an alcoholic for years I tried to get him of it, and one day my brother told to me I do not want to pack in the drinking I get a buss out of it.
He also told me if you’re an alcoholic one drop and it will send you back on the drinking.

My brother had problems and because of them suffered with depression, if he would have dealt with the problems going to a councillor he problems would have disappeared do not need the drink. I will pray for you
 
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Forge3

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A brother of mine was an alcoholic for years I tried to get him of it, and one day my brother told to me I do not want to pack in the drinking I get a buss out of it.
He also told me if you’re an alcoholic one drop and it will send you back on the drinking.

My brother had problems and because of them suffered with depression, if he would have dealt with the problems going to a councillor he problems would have disappeared do not need the drink. I will pray for you

Wow I fogot about this thread. Your prayers are most welcome.
 
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