Possibly Presbyterian?

[FaithfulPilgrim]

Hello!

I am drawn to Presbyterianism and find myself agreeing with it more than the Baptist faith I was brought up in. Even then, I still have a few things that make hesitant about becoming Presbyterian.

Here are some points and questions

1. I'm a credobaptist, but I paedobaptism is a minor issue to me and I wouldn't leave a church over it. I guess this is one of the few Baptist beliefs I have retained.

Are there any credobaptist Presbyterians? I know that the Free Presbyterian Church accepts both paedobaptists ad credobaptists, but I'm particularly interested in the PCA.

2. I am undecided about eschatology other than Revelation being about future events and that God still has a plan for Israel, but I think dispensationalism takes the distinction between the Church and Israel a little too far. My view is that the Church has not replaced Israel, but has been grafted into spiritual Israel, while the nation and Jewish people will one day be grafted back in. Is this compatible with some Presbyterian denominations?

3. I hold to New Covenant Theology, which is espoused by some Reformed Baptists. How accepting are Presbyterians towards this view? The majority seems to hold to Covenant theology.


After sharing these, I feel that the Reformed Baptists are what I am looking for, but I'm still curious of what the Presbyterian view of these things are.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I'm a credobaptist, but I paedobaptism is a minor issue to me and I wouldn't leave a church over it. I guess this is one of the few Baptist beliefs I have retained.

Are there any credobaptist Presbyterians? I know that the Free Presbyterian Church accepts both paedobaptists ad credobaptists, but I'm particularly interested in the PCA.

I am the same way. This is a minor issue to me. I am still on the fence, but my learn is in the opposite direction as yours. Also, I am not going to die on the hill of paedobaptism. The evidence from either side is too weak for this to be an issue that divides. I've come across credobaptists in PCA churches, and as a member in the PCA you can hold that view. I know of a few elders who are credos, although I do not agree with that at all.

Lastly, there is no better way to examine and understand a doctrinal difference such as baptism than from within the same church as those you differ from. From the other side, you only get one-sided arguments and straw men.

I am undecided about eschatology other than Revelation being about future events and that God still has a plan for Israel, but I think dispensationalism takes the distinction between the Church and Israel a little too far. My view is that the Church has not replaced Israel, but has been grafted into spiritual Israel, while the nation and Jewish people will one day be grafted back in. Is this compatible with some Presbyterian denominations?

No Presbyterian I know talks about this in terms of "replacement". I understand ALL of God's elect, from the beginning of time, to be the true Israel.

I hold to New Covenant Theology, which is espoused by some Reformed Baptists. How accepting are Presbyterians towards this view? The majority seems to hold to Covenant theology.

This will not prevent you from being a content member of a PCA church.

You should try a couple of PCA churches on for size. After 34 years and many churches, I still think it's the best option out there, but like other denomination, there can be a substantial difference in the feel of different congregations depending on location and leadership.

There is a spectrum, so check out a couple if there are more than one in your area.

 

[FaithfulPilgrim]

There aren't that many Presbyterian churches near me. Most of them are Baptist or Methodist.

I've seena few around, but idk which specific demoninations they belong to. (One is PCUSA, other than that, idk.)

 

[jimmyjimmy]

There aren't that many Presbyterian churches near me. Most of them are Baptist or Methodist.

I've seena few around, but idk which specific demoninations they belong to. (One is PCUSA, other than that, idk.)

PCA church locator

 

[FaithfulPilgrim]

PCA church locator

Thanks!

One more question.

I know that traditional dispensationalism is incompatible with a Reformed theolology, but what about progressive dispensationalism?

It is supposedly closer to Covenant theology except it teaches that promises made to Israel in the OT apply to the physical nation of Israel while rejecting the extreme parts of traditional dispensationalism and more Reformed in its understanding of soteriology. Other than that view of Israel, theologians say it is more like Covenant theology than dispensationalism.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Thanks!

One more question.

I know that traditional dispensationalism is incompatible with a Reformed theolology, but what about progressive dispensationalism?

It is supposedly closer to Covenant theology except it teaches that promises made to Israel in the OT apply to the physical nation of Israel while rejecting the extreme parts of traditional dispensationalism and more Reformed in its understanding of soteriology. Other than that view of Israel, theologians say it is more like Covenant theology than dispensationalism.

I can't answer that because of my ignorance of the subject; however, I will tell you that in a PCA church it will never come up.

 

[HeraldOfTheHolyOne]

Hello!

I am drawn to Presbyterianism and find myself agreeing with it more than the Baptist faith I was brought up in. Even then, I still have a few things that make hesitant about becoming Presbyterian.

Here are some points and questions

1. I'm a credobaptist, but I paedobaptism is a minor issue to me and I wouldn't leave a church over it. I guess this is one of the few Baptist beliefs I have retained.

Are there any credobaptist Presbyterians? I know that the Free Presbyterian Church accepts both paedobaptists ad credobaptists, but I'm particularly interested in the PCA.

2. I am undecided about eschatology other than Revelation being about future events and that God still has a plan for Israel, but I think dispensationalism takes the distinction between the Church and Israel a little too far. My view is that the Church has not replaced Israel, but has been grafted into spiritual Israel, while the nation and Jewish people will one day be grafted back in. Is this compatible with some Presbyterian denominations?

3. I hold to New Covenant Theology, which is espoused by some Reformed Baptists. How accepting are Presbyterians towards this view? The majority seems to hold to Covenant theology.


After sharing these, I feel that the Reformed Baptists are what I am looking for, but I'm still curious of what the Presbyterian view of these things are.

Hi FaithfulPilgrim!

1. While all elders/pastors & deacons are required to accept paedobaptism, one does not have to accept the doctrine to be received into membership.

2. Most Presbyterians in the PCA hold to amillennialism. Indeed the Gentiles have been grafted in to Israel and have become the inheritors of the covenant. Israel is essentially the Church. The Jewish people in their unbelief have been cut off from the covenant people, but will one day be brought back in. I highly recommend Kim Riddlebarger's book "A Case for Amillennialism" if you've not read it. Its an excellent book!

3. New Covenant theology is really inconsistent with Reformed theology and with confessional Presbyterianism. The New Covenant theology I've come across is a thinly veiled rehash of historic, English antinomianism. Though I am not saying that this is true of you since I don't know your particular understanding of the Mosaic Law and its place in the Christian life, I will say that associating yourself with NCT is dangerous.

Presbyterians believe that the Mosaic Law contains ceremonial, civil, and moral laws. Though some theonomists argue that the civil law is still binding for governments today, most accept that the ceremonial and civil laws have passed with the inauguration of the New Covenant. However, the moral law remains in force - meaning that Christians have a calling to walk in holiness, and this includes obedience to God's will revealed therein. I've not seen an NCT proponent successfully explain how Paul can use the 5th commandment as a binding ordinance on children, while yet affirming that the entirety of the Mosaic Law is done away with and has no reference to the Christian life. Though I've not read it, "From the Finger of God" by Philip Ross looks like an excellent book on the 3-fold distinction in the Law. The Westminster Shorter Catechism's section on the 10 Commandments may prove also to be helpful. I hope this is helpful!

 

[HeraldOfTheHolyOne]

Thanks!

One more question.

I know that traditional dispensationalism is incompatible with a Reformed theolology, but what about progressive dispensationalism?

It is supposedly closer to Covenant theology except it teaches that promises made to Israel in the OT apply to the physical nation of Israel while rejecting the extreme parts of traditional dispensationalism and more Reformed in its understanding of soteriology. Other than that view of Israel, theologians say it is more like Covenant theology than dispensationalism.

Progressive dispensationalism is not only incompatible with Reformed theology, it is incompatible with the Bible. It comes from a hermeneutic similar to traditional forms of dispensationalism, which is why it can conclude some of its wild eschatology. That hermeneutic I assure you, does not come from Scripture itself. Cf. Kim Riddlebarger's book, also Understanding Dispensationalists by Vern Poythress.

 

[Tree of Life]

Hello!

I am drawn to Presbyterianism and find myself agreeing with it more than the Baptist faith I was brought up in. Even then, I still have a few things that make hesitant about becoming Presbyterian.

Here are some points and questions

1. I'm a credobaptist, but I paedobaptism is a minor issue to me and I wouldn't leave a church over it. I guess this is one of the few Baptist beliefs I have retained.

Are there any credobaptist Presbyterians? I know that the Free Presbyterian Church accepts both paedobaptists ad credobaptists, but I'm particularly interested in the PCA.

Yes. There are members in our church (PCA) who have not baptized their children because of credobaptist convictions. You can certainly be a credobaptist and a Presbyterian. Though it is not likely that you could become ordained to office as a credobaptist. If you don't care about being an officer then you'll be fine as a credobaptist in a presbyterian setting.

2. I am undecided about eschatology other than Revelation being about future events and that God still has a plan for Israel, but I think dispensationalism takes the distinction between the Church and Israel a little too far. My view is that the Church has not replaced Israel, but has been grafted into spiritual Israel, while the nation and Jewish people will one day be grafted back in. Is this compatible with some Presbyterian denominations?

While this is not my view it is acceptable within a presbyterian framework.

3. I hold to New Covenant Theology, which is espoused by some Reformed Baptists. How accepting are Presbyterians towards this view? The majority seems to hold to Covenant theology.

Covenant Theology and New Covenant Theology would be a major difference between Prebyterianism and being a Reformed Baptist. If you're a New Covenant Theology guy you'd probably be more at ease in a Reformed Baptist setting.

After sharing these, I feel that the Reformed Baptists are what I am looking for, but I'm still curious of what the Presbyterian view of these things are.

You sound like a Reformed Baptist. We would respectfully disagree with you on the exact points that you've mentioned but we would still rejoice that you're reformed and welcome you as a brother in Christ.