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Frame1520 said:Happy to be of any assistance! Its hard in this day and age to find a group of believers who DO go above and beyond the "call of duty" when it comes to God's family. There are too many people who just put in their 2 hrs a week, and that's it! (I like to call these folks, "Sunday Morning Sitters".) In any event, there are plenty of congregations out there that are similar to what you are looking for (in the RM), but not necessarily EXACTLY what you are looking for. It's good to feel good about where you are going, and have a nice fellowship..But, with that said, to me at least, a place where the bible is taught and the bible only is the most important thing. I think in MOST RM churches you will find that. (At least I hope so.)
Be blessed!
constance said:Hi WATW - what you're looking for is probably the Hutterites. But I think they're mainly in the extreme north of this country and in Canada.
You may look for a social commune that is also Christian (a la Keith Green's commune) - I know they exist but don't know of any in the SW.
Constance
woman.at.the.well said:I don't mean to strike up a debate here but I am wondering how RM churches preach things from the Word and using that as an example. I am a woman and that above passage doesn't tick me off. I wish others wouldn't get so offended by it either. I don't see it as an insult. Are RM churches pretty literal when teaching from God's word that you know of?
HeyHomie said:Well we're pretty literal. There are no women preachers in any RM congregation that I'm aware of.
It is necessary to understand what the Bible says in context. For example, there's a Psalm that says something about wanting to take babies and bash their heads against rocks. If you didn't know the context, you'd think that God wants His people to commit infanticide.
Sure, just remember to tell people I told you.woman.at.the.well said:I love that, can I borrow it? "Sunday Morning Sitters." That's classic!
Based on what I've read from you, a RM church kind of sounds up your alley. I'd look at "Christian churches" and "churches of Christ." Maybe, a suggested before, make a phone call to the minister to see where they stand on things (instrumental or non).woman.at.the.well said:If I could get something close to what I am looking for I would be VERY happy! As I said in a prior post - I know no one single religion will have EXACTLY everything I look for or anyone for that matter. I also struggle with not wanting to be a church hopper/shopper. But I believe people go through different stages in their faith and when that happens sometimes we need to change to accomodate where we are at spiritually. And that time has come for me.
Too many folks key in on one verse, and base everything they believe in on that. They'll take one vese like Romans 10:9, or even Acts 2:38 and use it as their only view. (Granted, Acts 2:38 is pretty powerful and clear!) It's a shame that they don't teach the verse, or chapter in context, and who the epistle was written to, etc.woman.at.the.well said:I really get uptight when certain religions twist things and say things like, "well in the context that it was written," which unless you are a bible scholar you wouldn't know what the context was.
I think so. At least, most that I've known.woman.at.the.well said:Are RM churches pretty literal when teaching from God's word that you know of?
As to the women issue you brought up, I agree with you. The bible is pretty clear on the issue, and I think we should take it literally. It also comes back to compromising God's word. When churches decide they are going to allow women ministers, or even leadership (elders, deacons, etc.), then they are compromising God's word. When you do that, you set a precident. Next thing you know, your compromising on other teachings from the bible. "Oh, well, we don't need to take the Lord's supper every week...We don't need to baptize people...Lets just have a feel good message...People don't want to hear about hell!" I joke, but a lot of churches have already gone down this road. More sad than funny.woman.at.the.well said:I guess I struggle with the fine lines and teachings that I feel are false out there especially with this subject. I've had pastors say that you have to keep it into context and remember what was going on at the time. I understand all that, etc. But how is someone just thumbing through the bible supposed to know that? I don't think God's inspired word was supposed to be interpreted any other way than literally. Do you guys? Or am I being way too legalistic? Be truthful. I can take it!
Frame1520 said:Sure, just remember to tell people I told you.
Frame1520 said:Based on what I've read from you, a RM church kind of sounds up your alley. I'd look at "Christian churches" and "churches of Christ." Maybe, a suggested before, make a phone call to the minister to see where they stand on things (instrumental or non).
Frame1520 said:Too many folks key in on one verse, and base everything they believe in on that. They'll take one vese like Romans 10:9, or even Acts 2:38 and use it as their only view. (Granted, Acts 2:38 is pretty powerful and clear!) It's a shame that they don't teach the verse, or chapter in context, and who the epistle was written to, etc.
I think so. At least, most that I've known.
Frame1520 said:As to the women issue you brought up, I agree with you. The bible is pretty clear on the issue, and I think we should take it literally. It also comes back to compromising God's word. When churches decide they are going to allow women ministers, or even leadership (elders, deacons, etc.), then they are compromising God's word. When you do that, you set a precident. Next thing you know, your compromising on other teachings from the bible. "Oh, well, we don't need to take the Lord's supper every week...We don't need to baptize people...Lets just have a feel good message...People don't want to hear about hell!" I joke, but a lot of churches have already gone down this road. More sad than funny.
Glad I could ramble on in response to your post!
Some people don't like to be called out...Others have too much pride...Still others, aren't willing to accept the truth. I can't understand how someone can say the bible is God's word and our final authority, then leave things out, or manipulate things to meet thier needs. Odd, and I'll never understand.woman.at.the.well said:I totally agree with you. I studied with a group of people that did that and when I questioned them on it they never came back.
I think far too many people realize that this manipulation is from satan himself. Sometimes we have to take a step back and say, "who is really working here?" What better way to steer people from Christ than to manipulate the scriptures, and cause people to doubt based on so many different, quote "interpretations?"woman.at.the.well said:You got that right Frame. The bible is VERY clear and I don't like it when the line is crossed not only on the issue of women preachers but in anyway. I can totally understand why non-believers would get upset about that. That is why we have so many different beliefs because people manipulate the scriptures and that really ticks me off. The bible should not be comprimised as you said!
Yeah. Difficult to make people understand salvation if they don't understand the alternative. Again, people don't like to hear things that make them uncomfortable. I don't know about you, but every once in a while, being reminded of hell as an alternative certainly can keep one humble and aware.woman.at.the.well said:It's funny you mentioned no teachings on hell. I have only heard one sermon on that from our church and it wasn't even the Sr. Pastor who gave it. It was an elder who did an excellent job preaching about the Bema Seat! I was rather surprised to see that alot of folks got offended by the sermon. I'm like, "huh??? are you crazy? isn't that what we are trying to avoid (hell)???"
What was the class? That they had to meet certain requirements before they were baptized? I'd be interested to hear more. (for the sake of conversation.)woman.at.the.well said:I believe we should do the Lord's Supper every week as well. And we don't at my church (a fellowship). I also recently found out there is some formalities to being baptized as well which I highly disagree with. Jesus said, "go out into the nations, preach the gospel and baptize those that believe." I see no formalities there, do you? Believe, repent, and be baptized. Done deal! What'sup with the classes, etc???
Probably right. Each person is in different stages of their Christian walk, all needing a different type of spirtual growth. Obviously, the end goal should be sound in ones biblical knowledge, tothe point where the student becomes the teacher, thus repeating the whole process of what the great commission is all about.woman.at.the.well said:I know it's hard to understand but I believe those feel good churches are out there for a reason. As I said before, I believe we go through different stages in our faith -- and perhaps the feel good churches draw them in (to a degree). Then when need be they move onto something more then skin deep. Does that make sense?
No problem. Good to fellowship and share like thoughts!woman.at.the.well said:Thank you so much for letting ME ramble on (not you Frame) and pretty much high jack the thread. I really didn't mean to. But I have learned so much from you and heyhomie about RMs! I really appreciate your time and patience!
Bless you both for your Christ-like character and example.
Frame1520 said:Some people don't like to be called out...Others have too much pride...Still others, aren't willing to accept the truth. I can't understand how someone can say the bible is God's word and our final authority, then leave things out, or manipulate things to meet thier needs. Odd, and I'll never understand.
Frame1520 said:I think far too many people realize that this manipulation is from satan himself. Sometimes we have to take a step back and say, "who is really working here?" What better way to steer people from Christ than to manipulate the scriptures, and cause people to doubt based on so many different, quote "interpretations?"
Frame1520 said:Yeah. Difficult to make people understand salvation if they don't understand the alternative. Again, people don't like to hear things that make them uncomfortable. I don't know about you, but every once in a while, being reminded of hell as an alternative certainly can keep one humble and aware.
Frame1520 said:What was the class? That they had to meet certain requirements before they were baptized? I'd be interested to hear more. (for the sake of conversation.)
Frame1520 said:Probably right. Each person is in different stages of their Christian walk, all needing a different type of spirtual growth. Obviously, the end goal should be sound in ones biblical knowledge, tothe point where the student becomes the teacher, thus repeating the whole process of what the great commission is all about.
Frame1520 said:No problem. Good to fellowship and share like thoughts!
HeyHomie said:Psalm 137
1Alongside Babylon's rivers we sat on the banks; we cried and cried,
remembering the good old days in Zion.
2Alongside the quaking aspens
we stacked our unplayed harps;
3That's where our captors demanded songs,
sarcastic and mocking:
"Sing us a happy Zion song!"
4Oh, how could we ever sing GOD's song
in this wasteland?
5If I ever forget you, Jerusalem,
let my fingers wither and fall off like leaves.
6Let my tongue swell and turn black
if I fail to remember you,
If I fail, O dear Jerusalem,
to honor you as my greatest.
7GOD, remember those Edomites,
and remember the ruin of Jerusalem,
That day they yelled out,
"Wreck it, smash it to bits!"
8And you, Babylonians--ravagers!
A reward to whoever gets back at you
for all you've done to us;
9Yes, a reward to the one who grabs your babies and smashes their heads on the rocks!
VonKarman said:As pertains to the original post:
Very interesting. Sounds a lot like a "non-denominational" Christian viewpoint.
Kind of frightening to think what it could be used for. Probably has good intentions (I say probably because I don't know). I can't see making someone who wants to obey Christ's command and become a Christian thru baptism take a class beforehand? Seems to me if someone is willing they probably understand it enough to know what it's for. It's good to reinforce the purpose of such things, but I don't think it should be REQUIRED to take a class to "be taught" what it is about first. What if someone comes forward to become a Christian and is refused, only to die before they "learn what they need to learn" in such a class? I don't know. God would ultimately be their judge, but I just can't see turning anyone away, EVER. That's my two sense on it.woman.at.the.well said:Ya know Frame . . .I have no idea what the class is. I never attended it. I had already been baptized in a CoC years ago when I came to this church but I'd be interested to know myself what is said or asked during this time. A friend of mine wanted him , his daughter, and granddaughter (3 generations) to be baptized by my pastor and he is requiring him to do this so I will ask him if he goes what the pastor went over and let you know if I am privy to that ok?
Frame1520 said:Kind of frightening to think what it could be used for. Probably has good intentions (I say probably because I don't know). I can't see making someone who wants to obey Christ's command and become a Christian thru baptism take a class beforehand? Seems to me if someone is willing they probably understand it enough to know what it's for. It's good to reinforce the purpose of such things, but I don't think it should be REQUIRED to take a class to "be taught" what it is about first. What if someone comes forward to become a Christian and is refused, only to die before they "learn what they need to learn" in such a class? I don't know. God would ultimately be their judge, but I just can't see turning anyone away, EVER. That's my two sense on it.
I've been part of some crazy stuff in churches, and that's new to me. Believe me, just when you think things are going ok, satan strolls in and starts setting things on fire! Too many folks don't realize that we are in such a spiritual battle. I don't say that lightly. I know I have experienced it, and am sure others on here have as well. (Sorry somewhat off topic, but a random thought.)
I am somewhat of an outsider to the RM, but here is what I know(anyone else can fill in where I am wrong or just don't know). When I enrolled at Ozark Christian College(an RM school) alot of my pentecostal friends pointed out that they were cessasionists and that I might be made fun of for my beliefs. What I found out was that many of the proffessors and students are not that way. Do they practice the gifts? Not to my knowledge, but they at least allow it. I've been to several RM churches to and usually it's a topic that is never brought up. So I don't really know the most common view in the restoration movement.woman.at.the.well said:Which brings me to another point - I can't really find anything regarding RM teachings (on Wikipedia, etc) on The Gifts of the Holy Spirit like: prophesying, distinguishing spirits, healing, etc. So do you mind if I pick your brain about that too - nicely of course! If you have some sources (e.g. internet, etc) I could use and don't mind sharing them feel free to post them for me so I don't have to keep bugging you!
HeyHomie said:There are no women preachers in any RM congregation that I'm aware of.
Yeah it doesn't make much sense...I would GUESS that the class is a way of (and I hate to use this word), make the people believe what the denomination believes. I am firmly against turning people away who want to be baptized, waiting for a class!woman.at.the.well said:in this church I attend -- is just the icing on the cake of several reasons why I am looking around for another church home. Hence so many questions to you guys on the RM forum.
I almost emailed my pastor back when he said he wouldn't baptize them without talking to them/them attending a baptismal class and said, "WHAT????????? Where is THAT written in the word?" I shouldn't be surprised though because of where he got his doctrate of divinity from. I won't say because I truly don't want to offend anyone but it does explain some differences in what I believe and what he practices/preaches about.
I too hope the "class" has good intentions even though I don't agree with it. If someone believes Jesus lived, died on the cross, and was resurrected from the dead - then what else does one have left to do? Get baptized of course! I don't get it.
You are sooooooo right on about satan strolling in and the spiritual battle We are in, It is scarey sometimes. Especially if people don't realize the power they have as believers in Christ.
I looked up some stuff online, but it seems like there's good stuff out there, and then people have to go and mess it up by adding something unbiblical! So I'll try and answer this the best that I can, interjecting some opinion here and there, so keep that in mind.woman.at.the.well said:Which brings me to another point - I can't really find anything regarding RM teachings (on Wikipedia, etc) on The Gifts of the Holy Spirit like: prophesying, distinguishing spirits, healing, etc. So do you mind if I pick your brain about that too - nicely of course! If you have some sources (e.g. internet, etc) I could use and don't mind sharing them feel free to post them for me so I don't have to keep bugging you!
Frame1520 said:I looked up some stuff online, but it seems like there's good stuff out there, and then people have to go and mess it up by adding something unbiblical! So I'll try and answer this the best that I can, interjecting some opinion here and there, so keep that in mind.
Prophesying: There is prophesying all thru the bible. Even in the new testament. The question is whether it can still occur today. I would say that the reasons for prophesying are for 1) to complete the scriptures and 2) give creedence to what the apostles were teaching. I would say that today it is unlikely that people could forsee the future or prophesy, simply because the scriptures were completed when John finished the book of revelation. Can God use people to prophesy? Absolutely. God can do anything He wants, but based on scriptures (and I could dig some up if you want), you would have to stretch far to find reasoning behind prophesy now. So, in that, I think that considering the completeness of the scriptures, prophesy is no longer necessary. God has told us all we need to know, for now.
Healing, miraculous signs, tongues, etc: You won't hear of the "gifts of the spirit" exhibited in a RM church. Does that mean that someone couldn't speak in tongues? No. Again, God is in charge and can do what He wants. I however believe that speaking in tongues is exactly what the bible says. The bible tells us that the tongues in question were different languages. If someone were to speak in tongues today, they would need an interpretor to interpret what they were saying. So, yes people can speak in tongues, just not "blabbidy bloppity blah blop". I don't think that is scriptural. Healing; can people be miraculously healed? God can heal. There are also other examples of gifts of the spirit, examples would be teaching, preaching, serving, giving, leading, and showing mercy. So in those, yes, we see those all the time. They are just not the outwardly noticable gifts. When you say gifts, obviously, most people think immediately of tongues, healing, etc. But there are other gifts, and yes I believe they are very important, and integral to God's church.
That's about the best I can do without looking up a ton of scriptures and taking up this entire forum with a post. You might go to this website: http://www.thecra.org/restherald.htm
They have a lot of useful stuff, from biblical scholars who are far more experienced and well versed than I am. It's a publication written by ministers, professors, and ton's of people from the RM. Hope this helps SOME!
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