Pope, Where does he rank?

[Billnew]

The Pope was admitted to the Hospital yesterday.
Where in God's hierchy is the POpe?

Saint? Just under saint? The leader of the church?

To me he is just a (possibly) devote man that sins just like the rest of us. He is not perfect, but does sacrifice a lot for Catholics.

Is this how it is?

Jesus(Trinity)
Mary
other saints
angels
Pope
Cardinals
church leaders
children in Christ

Just wondering.

 

[Monica02]

The Pope was admitted to the Hospital yesterday.
Where in God's hierchy is the POpe?

Saint? Just under saint? The leader of the church?

To me he is just a (possibly) devote man that sins just like the rest of us. He is not perfect, but does sacrifice a lot for Catholics.

Is this how it is?

Jesus(Trinity)
Mary
other saints
angels
Pope
Cardinals
church leaders
children in Christ

Just wondering.

Only departed persons can be saints, so the Holy Father is not one. He is the Vicar of Christ on Earth, but Christ is the head of the Church. JP2 is the visible head of the Church. His level of ordination is that of Bishop (he is the Bishop of Rome). I do not know what you mean by hierarchy, but Mary and all the angels and saints are already with God, so they are in a better position than you, me or the pope.

 

[Billnew]

Only departed persons can be saints, so the Holy Father is not one. He is the Vicar of Christ on Earth, but Christ is the head of the Church. JP2 is the visible head of the Church. His level of ordination is that of Bishop (he is the Bishop of Rome). I do not know what you mean by hierarchy, but Mary and all the angels and saints are already with God, so they are in a better position than you, me or the pope.

Thanks.
And they are in a better place.

By hierarchy, I mean Catholics pray to Mary. So,
I assume it's better then praying to the Patron Saints.
But I pray to Jesus, and cut out the middleman.

Why pray to anyone but the Father?

So according to the Catholic faith, the Pope is this Chief of all Preists?

I love the Church(CAtholic) for investigating and bestowing the Sainthood and
Evalutating prophesy. But I do not beleive in the power of the Pope.
All humans sin, so listen to the lord for guidance and discuss what the bible says with clergy, and others of faith. Preach in a language you can understand, and live a humble life.
The great cathedrals could have fed quite a bit of starving people had the church decided to follow gods example.
But I am getting off topic.
So is the Pope any holier then any other priest?

 

[Kepha]

Hey billnew. I was on the net and this forum came up. I noticed this thread amongst the rest and i want to respond just to clear a few things up reguarding our beliefs. It is not my intention to get into a long drawn out debate, but i do feel the need to answer these couple of questions of yours.

.

Why pray to anyone but the Father?

We dont pray to the Saints of Heaven as we do God giving worship to Him only. When we "pray" to Mary, we simply asks them to pray for us on earth.

So according to the Catholic faith, the Pope is this Chief of all Preists?

He is the Head of the Church for we believe it was only He alone who was given the Keys to Heaven and given a guarantee that the Church will be lead into the fullness of the truth never falling into error reguarding morals and doctrines when binding on the faithfull.
And I say to thee. thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (Matthew 16:18)

All humans sin, so listen to the lord for guidance and discuss what the bible says with clergy, and others of faith. Preach in a language you can understand, and live a humble life.

Of course all humans sin. The Pope is infallible and not impecable. The Holy Spirit can work through sinful men or we should even question the authority of the Apostles.

 

[gaiachrome]

By hierarchy, I mean Catholics pray to Mary. So,
I assume it's better then praying to the Patron Saints.
But I pray to Jesus, and cut out the middleman.

Why pray to anyone but the Father?

Catholics will normally ask other Christians to pray for them too.

You see through the pray of Jesus, Mary, the Saints, all the angles and all the people in Heaven and all the Christian on earth, the Kingdom of God is manifested and united.

Cutting out the middleman is cutting off some part of Kingdom of God.

But I do not beleive in the power of the Pope.

Jesus himself beleive in Peter, even when Peter disowned him three times.

John 21:15 Then when they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these do?” He replied, “Yes, Lord, you know I love you.” Jesus told him, “Feed my lambs.” 21:16 Jesus said a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He replied, “Yes, Lord, you know I love you.” Jesus told him, “Shepherd my sheep.” 21:17 Jesus said a third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was distressed that Jesus asked him a third time, “Do you love me?” and said, “Lord, you know everything. You know that I love you.” Jesus replied, “Feed my sheep.

You see the Pope is human like we all are, with failings, but we must belive that the Power of God will overcome all those failing, the way Jesus belive.

So is the Pope any holier then any other priest?

The Pope and the Priests are Holy, because God is Holy.

 

[stray bullet]

The Pope was admitted to the Hospital yesterday.
Where in God's hierchy is the POpe?

Saint? Just under saint? The leader of the church?

To me he is just a (possibly) devote man that sins just like the rest of us. He is not perfect, but does sacrifice a lot for Catholics.

Is this how it is?

Jesus(Trinity)
Mary
other saints
angels
Pope
Cardinals
church leaders
children in Christ

Just wondering.

Popes can be saints, as can cardinals, leaders and laymen.

As far as people go, I think we Christians aren't more important than others, we each have our own roles as God's children.

The Pope has an important role as the human head of Christ's Church, he is what Peter (Simon) was.

 

[stray bullet]

Thanks.
And they are in a better place.

By hierarchy, I mean Catholics pray to Mary. So,
I assume it's better then praying to the Patron Saints.
But I pray to Jesus, and cut out the middleman.

Why pray to anyone but the Father?

Well, Catholics ask saints, just as we ask people, to pray for us. We don't ask saints to do anything but pray for us, because all things come from God.
Catholics often like to ask the prayers of a particular saint, just as a Christian might ask for the prayers of someone who went through something similar.

I love the Church(CAtholic) for investigating and bestowing the Sainthood and
Evalutating prophesy. But I do not beleive in the power of the Pope.
All humans sin, so listen to the lord for guidance and discuss what the bible says with clergy, and others of faith. Preach in a language you can understand, and live a humble life.

As is said in Matthew 16, the Holy Spirit can reveal things to men directly. That's the role of the pope, to lead the Church and in times of need, be used as a gateway of information and clarity between God and man.

 

[Carrye]

*** MOD HAT ON ***

This thread was moved from General Apologetics to OBOB for Catholic answers.

*** MOD HAT OFF ***

 

[BjBarnett]

just from reading your posts in this thread bill, it sounds like you think we think the pope is sinless and we dont think that. if you dont think that its ok cause someone probably does think that and my post will get some use lol. he is the shepard of the church on earth. i dunno much about a "heiarchy"

 

[faerieevaH]

Welcome to OBOB all, especially Gaiachrome and Kepha, but also to Billnew! Ask any question you may have! We try always to anwser as much as we can.

 

[MParedon]

27Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?” 28Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother[f] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

Pope John Paul II is the servant of Christ.

He is bound by the Teachings of Christ passed down from the first Christians, in their writings and orally. He has no power to change his mind and start teaching contrary to that. He just can't decide he doesn't like a certain interpretation and start up his own church, because the Church belongs to Christ.
He is not perfect as Peter is not perfect. He is infallable when speaking ex cathedra on faith and morals, just as when imperfect Peter spoke on faith and morals before all the New Testament was even written much less put together.

Only God knows where John Paul II will be when he dies. But my idea is that he did leave house, family, possible children, fields for the sake of Christ. And as a servant of Christ who humbles his own pride so that he teaches Christ's Teachings and not his own, I would think that he is one of the many that are last on earth [especially seeing how derided he is by society] that will be among the first in heaven.

 

[zaire]

As my questions where deleted i will ask them again.

Why do you ask saints to pray for you?
How do you communicate with them to ask them to pray for you?
How exactly will they be able to pray for you.

And the pope is just another dude on the earth.

 

[Dream]

Why do you ask saints to pray for you?

Have you ever asked a friend to pray for you? That's the same thing we are doing when we ask a Saint to pray for us.

How do you communicate with them to ask them to pray for you?

Since we are all one Body in Christ, regular prayer is sufficient for "communicating" with Saints in Heaven. God will, in effect, "re-direct" your prayers to a Saint.

How exactly will they be able to pray for you.

How would they not be able to? They are in Heaven with God. What better person to ask for prayers than somebody so intimately connected with the Alimighty?

 

[Michael G]

By hierarchy, I mean Catholics pray to Mary. So,
I assume it's better then praying to the Patron Saints.
But I pray to Jesus, and cut out the middleman.

Why pray to anyone but the Father?

What is the difference between a Catholic asking a saint to pray for them and you asking you friend who is a Christian to pray for you? There is none. Catholics do not pray to Mary or the Saints. They ask them to pray for them. There is a big difference. Perhaps you should study the differences in meaning between the words worship and venerate.

 

[Paul S]

As my questions where deleted i will ask them again.

Your questions got moved to OBOB, not deleted, so there's a better chance of Catholics seeing them and answering.

Why do you ask saints to pray for you?

We believe that the Body of Christ is one. There is not one Body on earth and another in heaven, but that all believers remain united with Him and with each other forever. Asking a saint to pray for us is no different than asking the guy in the next pew at your church to pray for you - although the saint has a much better pew, since he's already made it to heaven with God and doesn't have to worry about committing sin anymore.

How do you communicate with them to ask them to pray for you?

We just talk to them, the way we would a friend, and let God handle it from there.

How exactly will they be able to pray for you.

The same way a friend would - they pray to God for us.

And the pope is just another dude on the earth.

The Pope is just another dude in the same way Peter the apostle was just another dude. Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom of heaven. In Isaias 22, you'll read that this was done by the king to give authority to his prime minister, who could act in the king's place while he was away. Likewise, in Matthew 16, Jesus gives authority to Peter to act in His name, and to bind and loose on earth and in heaven. Jesus wanted us to have a shepherd after He ascended into heaven, and gave the job to Peter - He told him to "Feed my sheep." Since Peter would not live forever, though, this had to be passed down through the centuries, just as Matthias was appointed to replace Judas.

 

[Benedicta00]

As my questions where deleted i will ask them again.

Why do you ask saints to pray for you?

The same reason why you ask people to pray for you assuming that you do.

How do you communicate with them to ask them to pray for you?

We pray to them. At&T don’t work.

How exactly will they be able to pray for you.

The same way you can pray for me.

And the pope is just another dude on the earth.

Yep- but he sits in the chair of saint Peter the apostle- he is his successor the first among equals. He is a sinner like you and I and is in need of a savior like you and I but he has a special calling he is the visible head of Christ’s Church on earth. He is the dude Christ left in change while he sits in heaven guiding this whole thing from there via the Holy Spirit.

 

[MParedon]

[bible]

15:7 I tell you, in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over 99 righteous people who don't need repentance. [/bible]

Those in heaven know what goes on down on earth.

 

[faerieevaH]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Shelb5 again.

The AT&T remark made me laugh!

 

[zaire]

Am i missing something but when does the Bible tell us to pray to the dead?

And when does it tell us they know what happening down here?

 

[Michael G]

Am i missing something but when does the Bible tell us to pray to the dead?

And when does it tell us they know what happening down here?

Where does the bible say it is the sole basis of all revealed truth? I think, if you read it correctly, it says the Church of the Living God is the pillar and foundation of truth. (1 Tim 3:15). By the way, how could the Church have existed for almost 400 years prior to the setting of the Canon of Scripture which was done at the Councils of Hippo and Carthage in the 390's? I am sorry, I do not mean to derail this thread.