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Not that it matters Silvio, I'm enjoying your thread. Thanks for posting it.
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Not that it matters Silvio, I'm enjoying your thread. Thanks for posting it.You challenge me? How nice. If I feel linking to someone else's material is beneficial in future I will do so...
Now, back to thread subject...
But that is just one aspect of this document. There is so much more. No thoughts on all those different subjects?
Mike's 'challenges' are best left to PM instead of clogging up a thread on the first written work by our current Pope in my view...Not that it matters Silvio, I'm enjoying your thread. Thanks for posting it.
I reread it. I'm sorry for misunderstanding. I'm reading three things at once.what are you talking about?
I referred to six different aspects of this document. Go re-read my post...
I reread it. I'm sorry for misunderstanding. I'm reading three things at once.
I'm trying to go through it now. What did he say about women?
Ah, ok. I'm at #81 right now.He mentions women quite a lot but in direct reference to the priesthood?
104. Demands that the legitimate rights of women be respected, based on the firm conviction that men and women are equal in dignity, present the Church with profound and challenging questions which cannot be lightly evaded.
The reservation of the priesthood to males, as a sign of Christ the Spouse who gives himself in the Eucharist, is not a question open to discussion, but it can prove especially divisive if sacramental power is too closely identified with power in general. It must be remembered that when we speak of sacramental power we are in the realm of function, not that of dignity or holiness.[73] The ministerial priesthood is one means employed by Jesus for the service of his people, yet our great dignity derives from baptism, which is accessible to all.
The configuration of the priest to Christ the head namely, as the principal source of grace does not imply an exaltation which would set him above others. In the Church, functions do not favour the superiority of some vis-à-vis the others.[74] Indeed, a woman, Mary, is more important than the bishops.
98. How many wars take place within the people of God and in our different communities! In our neighbourhoods and in the workplace, how many wars are caused by envy and jealousy, even among Christians! Spiritual worldliness leads some Christians to war with other Christians who stand in the way of their quest for power, prestige, pleasure and economic security. Some are even no longer content to live as part of the greater Church community but stoke a spirit of exclusivity, creating an “inner circle”. Instead of belonging to the whole Church in all its rich variety, they belong to this or that group which thinks itself different or special.
103. The Church acknowledges the indispensable contribution which women make to society through the sensitivity, intuition and other distinctive skill sets which they, more than men, tend to possess. I think, for example, of the special concern which women show to others, which finds a particular, even if not exclusive, expression in motherhood. I readily acknowledge that many women share pastoral responsibilities with priests, helping to guide people, families and groups and offering new contributions to theological reflection. But we need to create still broader opportunities for a more incisive female presence in the Church. Because “the feminine genius is needed in all expressions in the life of society, the presence of women must also be guaranteed in the workplace”[72] and in the various other settings where important decisions are made, both in the Church and in social structures.
104. Demands that the legitimate rights of women be respected, based on the firm conviction that men and women are equal in dignity, present the Church with profound and challenging questions which cannot be lightly evaded. The reservation of the priesthood to males, as a sign of Christ the Spouse who gives himself in the Eucharist, is not a question open to discussion, but it can prove especially divisive if sacramental power is too closely identified with power in general. It must be remembered that when we speak of sacramental power “we are in the realm of function, not that of dignity or holiness”.[73]The ministerial priesthood is one means employed by Jesus for the service of his people, yet our great dignity derives from baptism, which is accessible to all. The configuration of the priest to Christ the head – namely, as the principal source of grace – does not imply an exaltation which would set him above others. In the Church, functions “do not favour the superiority of some vis-à-vis the others”.[74] Indeed, a woman, Mary, is more important than the bishops. Even when the function of ministerial priesthood is considered “hierarchical”, it must be remembered that “it is totally ordered to the holiness of Christ’s members”.[75] Its key and axis is not power understood as domination, but the power to administer the sacrament of the Eucharist; this is the origin of its authority, which is always a service to God’s people. This presents a great challenge for pastors and theologians, who are in a position to recognize more fully what this entails with regard to the possible role of women in decision-making in different areas of the Church’s life.
207. Any Church community, if it thinks it can comfortably go its own way without creative concern and effective cooperation in helping the poor to live with dignity and reaching out to everyone, will also risk breaking down, however much it may talk about social issues or criticize governments. It will easily drift into a spiritual worldliness camouflaged by religious practices, unproductive meetings and empty talk.
208. If anyone feels offended by my words, I would respond that I speak them with affection and with the best of intentions, quite apart from any personal interest or political ideology. My words are not those of a foe or an opponent. I am interested only in helping those who are in thrall to an individualistic, indifferent and self-centred mentality to be freed from those unworthy chains and to attain a way of living and thinking which is more humane, noble and fruitful, and which will bring dignity to their presence on this earth.
This was an excellent read & not nearly as tedious as I thought it would be. It was inspiring. I really don't see much different in substance but I see a huge difference in style. It is his style that is evangelizing people & inspiring others to do likewise. It is like he has opened a box with the same things in it as there has always been but he is making us see it in a new light.
Well I think we basically had the same take on what the Pope said. I like his style. And I think the RCC needs it at this point.I can't disagree with a lot of that to be honest...
Didn't realize you were posting on this new document Silvio. There is a ton to wade through & read I think before we can have any informed discussion on the whole of it.
As you can see:
Continued- Evangelii Gaudium, Apostolic Exhortation of Pope Francis, 2013
Everyone can share in some way in the life of the Church; everyone can be part of the community, nor should the doors of the sacraments be closed for simply any reason. This is especially true of the sacrament which is itself the door: baptism. The Eucharist, although it is the fullness of sacramental life, is not a prize for the perfect but a powerful medicine and nourishment for the weak.[51] These convictions have pastoral consequences that we are called to consider with prudence and boldness. Frequently, we act as arbiters of grace rather than its facilitators. But the Church is not a tollhouse; it is the house of the Father, where there is a place for everyone, with all their problems.
What a wisdom figure Pope Francis is.
Reading through this document (and I'm only part of the way through--maybe I can read more in the car on the way to St. Louis) I am amazed by all the "feeling" words--words like "thrilling."
I was NEVER, ever able to picture Pope Benedict being thrilled about anything. How in the world could the Cardinals have passed by Cardinal Bergoglio in 2005? I figure that God made us wait so that we would appreciate Pope Francis more and listen to him harder.
Underneath all the brilliance there is such depth of emotion, and this is what I love about Pope Francis.
And so many parts that are eminently quotable. I skipped by a bunch, but here's one:
I believe that we can all be channels of grace for one another. Lord, keep us from the temptation to be "arbiters of grace." Let us be facilitators.
All I can say is W-O-W.
Yes, he said that women cannot be ordained (but why write about that, since there are 100's of conservative bloggers right now trying to pretend that that was the MAIN focus of his message?)
He also said women should have increased positions of leadership....and this will change the Church...
Like the lyrics from "Wicked" say, "Because I knew you....because I knew you....I have been changed for good."
Pope Francis also expands on his concerns about economic inequality.
"Today we also have to say "thou shalt not" to an economy of exclusion and inequality. Such an economy kills," he says, going on to castigate the "new idolatry of money".
"I beg the Lord to grant us more politicians who are genuinely disturbed by the state of society, the people, the lives of the poor!" he goes on.
The document suggests major changes are on the way, with Francis noting that the Church has to get over an attitude that says: "We have always done it this way,"
BBC News - Pope Francis calls for power to move away from Vatican
Pope Francis should be praying for Catholic Church to find someone who can lead Christianity to obey Jesus and care for the poor. The ball is in Pope Francis' court, not the secular world's court.
Jesus does not put taxpayers in heaven because their elected officials cared for the poor. Jesus will send to hell any of His followers who do not provide for the least of their brothers. If all Christians tithed (gave ten percent of their income to the poor), what would we do with all the excess?
None of us can think we are exempt from concern for the poor and for social justice. And in case anyone misses the point, after a critique of the idolatry of money and an economy of exclusion, the Pope says: The Pope loves everyone, rich and poor alike, but he is obliged in the name of Christ to remind all that the rich must help, respect and promote the poor. I exhort you to generous solidarity and a return of economics and finance to an ethical approach which favors human beings.
Whats more, this does not mean simply caring for the poor, it means addressing the structures that keep them poor: The need to resolve the structural causes of poverty cannot be delayed.
This joy and confidence needed to tackle these challenges both inside and outside the church is rooted and grounded in a deep relationship with Jesus Christ. Without that personal encounter with Jesus trying to spread the Gospel is useless. We must have what he calls a constantly renewed experience of savoring Christs friendship and his message.
Evangelii Gaudim (full text)With his apostolic exhortation Evangelii Gaudium, Pope Francis gives the world not only a guide to the “new evangelization” but also an outline of his plans for Church reform—the program for his pontificate.
Evangelii Gaudium [“The Joy of the Gospel”], released to the public on November 26, is a lengthy document, in which the Holy Father does his utmost to scan the entire field of Church missionary activity from every perspective. But he continually returns to a few central themes.
Evangelization, the Pope insists, is the very essence of the Church’s mission. The drive to share the Good News of the Gospel is fueled—as the title of this apostolic exhortation suggests—by the joy that believers find in their faith. Today, the Church must convey that joy to a troubled world.
As he makes this argument, Pope Francis also gives readers a clear sense of how he intends to approach his task of bringing reform to the Vatican, and promoting constructive change in the universal Church. His plan is to encourage a new sense of urgency, to pare down bureaucratic structures and attitudes. In a sentence that encapsulates his approach to reform, he writes: “Pastoral ministry in a missionary key seeks to abandon the complacent attitude that says: “We have always done it this way.”
Father Roger Landry, a Massachusetts pastor and gifted preacher, captured the message nicely, I think, when he said: “Pope Francis says that the fundamental reform the Church needs is from one of self-preservation of Church structures to a permanent state of mission.”
A hybrid text
Evangelii Gaudium is not the first major written work of this pontificate; Pope Francis has already given us Lumen Fidei. But as the Holy Father readily acknowledged, Pope Benedict XVI began the drafting of that encyclical, and the final product was a sort of hybrid, reflecting the work of both current of former Pontiffs. Evangelii Gaudium, on the other hand, is entirely the work of Pope Francis.
Nevertheless this papal document is a hybrid in another sense. Ordinarily an apostolic exhortation summarizes the themes that have emerged from discussions at a meeting of the Synod of Bishops. Evangelii Gaudium grew out of the October 2012 session of the Synod, which was devoted to the new evangelization. But Pope Francis, newly installed on Peter’s throne, said that he wanted to place the recommendations of the Synod in a broader framework.
The result is, unfortunately, a very long document. No doubt the Pontiff was presented with a summary of the themes that arose in the Synod discussions, and did his best to incorporate them all. At times that effort led the Pontiff to stray from his main focus, or to circle back to subjects that he had already discussed. The sheer length of the resulting text (222 pages, in the version released by the Vatican) will discourage many readers.
However, readers who take the time to read this apostolic exhortation—or even the opening passages, which provide a good sense of the Pope’s overall message—will be rewarded. Pope Francis can write with great energy, and the text is liberally sprinkled with short, highly quotable passages. (To illustrate, I have reproduced a few of those passages below.)
The writing style of Pope Francis is very different from that of his immediate predecessors. I feel confident in saying (although I have not made an exhaustive search) that this is the first papal document in which the official English translation contains the word “sourpusses.”
Transforming the Church
Introducing the papal document at a press conference in Rome, Archbishop Rino Fisichella, the president of the Pontifical Council for the New Evangelization, said: “Pope Francis offers this document to the Church as a map and guide to her pastoral mission in the near future.” In other words, the apostolic exhortation sets forth the Pope’s plans for this pontificate. Indeed the title of the first chapter, “The Church’s Missionary Transformation,” could almost be taken as this Pope’s goal for the Church he leads.
“There are ecclesial structures which can hamper efforts at evangelization,” Pope Francis writes; “yet even good structures are only helpful when there is a life constantly driving, sustaining and assessing them.” He is determined to streamline the organization of the Church in order to stimulate, rather than [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], apostolic activity.
In those plans for reform, the Pope explicitly recognizes the need to decentralize. The Vatican, he says, exists to help diocesan bishops, not to control them. He proposes a greater role for episcopal conferences, to stimulate efforts at the national level rather than always looking to Rome. “Excessive centralization, rather than proving helpful, complicates the Church’s life and missionary outreach,” the Pope writes.
The papacy itself should be reformed, Pope Francis continues, in the hope of stimulating ecumenical unity. He cites the desire of Blessed John Paul II to find a way of exercising the Petrine ministry that would preserve papal primacy while allowing full scope for the authority of diocesan bishops. “We have made little progress in this regard,” Pope Francis laments.
The heart of the message
The bulk of Evangelii Gaudium is devoted to the challenge of evangelization. Pope Francis provides a rich variety of useful suggestions for pastors and for lay people who wish to share their faith. In what may be the most detailed, practical section of the document, he focuses at length—“somewhat meticulously,” as he himself puts it—on how priests should prepare their homilies.
But here too, the Pope continually returns to a few main themes. He stresses that the faith is spread not by human efforts but by God’s grace. Faith is a gift, he writes, and “whenever we take a step towards Jesus, we come to realize that he is already there, waiting for us with open arms.”
While he encourages energetic efforts to spread the Gospel message, the Pope is scornful of efforts to “circle the wagons” and preserve the institutional prestige of the Church. He is critical of any Catholic who “would rather be the general of a defeated army than a mere private in a unit which continues to fight.”
The recurring theme of the Pope’s advice is that effective evangelization springs from a joyous recognition of God’s gratuitous gift of Himself. The Christians who convey the faith effectively, he writes, are those who convey that sense of joy. “Instead of seeming to impose new obligations, they should appear as people who wish to share their joy, who point to a horizon of beauty and who invite others to a delicious banquet.”
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