I have replied. You just don't like my answer.65% might say they are Christian when asked the question on a census form. I'm english. I'd say england isn't meaningfully Christian beyond some heritage. So a comparison to england isn't helping.
Try stating outright what you mean by Israel as a Jewish state
You have to remember the type of people you're talking to. People who love to wrap themselves in "Well X is a Christian country" in place of an actual, reasonable argument about why various vaguely Biblical prohibitions should be applied to secular law today, or to justify distaste for certain minorities. Seen through this prism, it make sense that they're keen to identify fellow "Christian countries", although in the sense they tend to mean, with the exception possibly of The Vatican, no such country exists.Nods.
So how does that help understand what Israel as a Jewish state would mean?
So that's kind of the issue. One can affirm Israel as a legitimate state, but "Jewish state" is way too ambiguous.
A Jewish state means two things:So "a Jewish state" means no more than a state religion with virtually no impact on pragmatics?
And that's unlike Saudi Arabia which does not allow any non-Muslim to be a citizen.A Jewish state means two things:
1. That the state religion is Judaism, and so there will be some societal accomodations such as Shabbat.
2. That because Israel is a safe haven for Jews fleeing antisemitism, there will always be a preference given Jews for immigration. This does NOT mean that other peoples will be denied citizenship.
Exactly. Israel is a western democracy and Saudi Arabia is not.And that's unlike Saudi Arabia which does not allow any non-Muslim to be a citizen.
And that's the limit?A Jewish state means two things:
1. That the state religion is Judaism, and so there will be some societal accomodations such as Shabbat.
2. That because Israel is a safe haven for Jews fleeing antisemitism, there will always be a preference given Jews for immigration. This does NOT mean that other peoples will be denied citizenship.
I sure can't think of anything more. I'm not wanting a State out of Leviticus if that's what you are thinking. Pretty much, I like the Jewish state that Israel is today. It has some bugs to work out, but then all nations do. I'm proud of the fact that Israel is a western democracy, that it gives more rights to women, gays, and ethnic and religious minorities than any other country in the middle east.And that's the limit?
Okay. And I'll take it you envisage protection for the reasonable rights of non jewish residents.I sure can't think of anything more. I'm not wanting a State out of Leviticus if that's what you are thinking.
It is a state where Jews will always be given refuge, a homeland for Jews.65% might say they are Christian when asked the question on a census form. I'm english. I'd say england isn't meaningfully Christian beyond some heritage. So a comparison to england isn't helping.
Try stating outright what you mean by Israel as a Jewish state
You know, I am pretty sure that Saudi Arabia bombed the Shia rebels of Yemen with thousands of dead civilians, and nobody much noticed.Can you imagine the world's uproar if Israel treated its non-Jews the way the Saudis treat their non-Muslims?
That's plenty enough, whether or not there is anything more.And that's all?
Didn't they.You know, I am pretty sure that Saudi Arabia bombed the Shia rebels of Yemen with thousands of dead civilians, and nobody much noticed.
I doubt most of the kinds of people who beat up random people like that distinguish to that degree of precision. People get harassed and beaten up for looking muslim all the time. It's not newsworthy.There was a few tsks-tsks from the UN maybe, but unlike Jews with yarmulkes in France, there are no reports of Saudis in their unique garb being spat at or in any way in danger because of this bombing campaign.
Speak for yourself. There's plenty of coverage of muslim initiated attrocities around the world. Precious little, on the whole, of Bhuddist ones, I'd say.The world doesn't much care when Muslims kill other Muslims, or Jews or Christians for that matter.
when you claim to be a western style democracy, and get supported like you are, expect to be held to that kind of standard.But when Jews kill Muslims, it is like the end of the universe.
The demand was that palestinians should recognise Israel as a Jewish state. Since then, people have been evasive about what exactly that means. You can't seriously expect palestinians to rubber stamp something when nobody will say what it means; it's an invitation for equivocation.That's plenty enough, whether or not there is anything more.
It is a pretty big thing actually, given how much the world hates the Jews, as has already been noted by LWU and myself commenting on those posts.
Can I ask what it is that you are worried about?And that's all?
Are you serious? No one responds to the Saudis as if they are NOT okay. Do you hear of any protests? Does anyone disinvest? Is there any talk of boycotts?Not quite the same though. Nobody significant in the west tries to pretend the Saudi regime is okay.
The past is what it is.While there are certainly differences between Israel and England, England is a Christian state in the sense that its history is Christian,
like the Saudi royal family would give a stuff about a western protest.Are you serious? No one responds to the Saudis as if they are NOT okay. Do you hear of any protests? Does anyone disinvest? Is there any talk of boycotts?
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